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Brexit

The Brexit Arms

999 replies

BrexitArmsLandlady · 02/03/2018 20:57

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No kicking off on this thread!!!

Bear has kindly set up another (non-pub) thread, so that leaves this one free for the Brexiteers!!!

Good speech by Theresa May today - onwards to Brexit 🍻🇬🇧

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15
mummmy2017 · 08/03/2018 15:40

Sometimes I think being on the wrong side I what makes this so hard for the Remainers on here.

gussyfinknottle · 08/03/2018 15:42

Unwarranted smugness and naivety do not make a good mix.

mummmy2017 · 08/03/2018 15:46

This is not about being smug. This is about how the posters on here are always on about how Brexit has to be stopped. That remain want it stopped. That the only way is for us not to leave. How is that facing up to reality?

TalkinPeace · 08/03/2018 15:47

mummmy
But I do know that Brexit is going to mean it HAS already started change.
What has started to change ?
Have rents come down?
Had child poverty started to drop?
Has food bank usage reduced?
Its just that all three of those are under the complete control of Whitehall. And at the moment I do not see Whitehall changing at all.
I'd like to
as I totally agree with you that those are critical issues that drove the Leave vote.
But I struggle to see how Brexit will have any impact on Tory policy with regards to housing or austerity.

gussyfinknottle · 08/03/2018 15:49

No one says it can be stopped. No one. We are saying it is going to be a disaster. Not the same thing.
Leaver fantasy fighting over nothing.

mummmy2017 · 08/03/2018 15:56

Read the post about some telling leavers they wet liedvto about 10 comments back. And almost all of the comments are that leave should give up. Not real life. But the sneering on here of my and other leavers is of epic proportions ..

mummmy2017 · 08/03/2018 15:59

Were lied to.... predictive text.

Cupofteaandtoilet · 08/03/2018 15:59

Please share your opinion Faith. I have asked politely and I promise to listen and not dispute. I'm sure you are a strong woman - you certainly come across as such - so surely you can put up with a bit of barracking from others?

I want to be converted to supporting Brexit.

Mummy I am slightly concerned about the financial impact of Brexit on me but I am much more concerned about the 'clients' I meet at the food bank. How do you think things will improve now that we're leaving the EU?

thecatfromjapan · 08/03/2018 16:00

Things really aren't as bad as they can be.

Hmm

It's actually delusional to think this when the impact reports suggest a drop in GDP of 10% across the UK over 15 years.

While you still can reasonably expect access to free-at-point-of-service medical care and education, things are not as bad as they could be.

Really. You need to pull your head out of your arse and start thinking about the impact of that drop in GDP.

I don't know if you spout stuff like this because you genuinely believe it or because you need to create a psychological defence about what the impact of this on real people - including yourself and your children - is going to be. It's not helpful though. The time for lying is long gone. To yourself; to people around you; and right-wing media to it's readers.

This fantasy that people voted for Brexit because things are already as bad as they could be - I'm not buying it. If you honestly think things are as bad as they could be, you've failed to notice reports from other parts of the world in countries where there is no welfare system. The 10% drop in GDP is going to shred that welfare system - NHS included.

I hope you and your children don't get sick in the next 10 years. Sad

Cupofteaandtoilet · 08/03/2018 16:03

Mummmmy. I'm sure it will change our lives - but I don't think it will be for the better. I would love it to, so will you tell me what will change for the better please?

DGRossetti · 08/03/2018 16:05

the impact reports suggest a drop in GDP of 10% across the UK over 15 years.

We'll look back on the heady days of austerity with nostalgia.

mummmy2017 · 08/03/2018 16:10

I find it odd how your demands for answer when met with an honest Answer of we don't know yet as it's Not happened, are not acknowledged.
Leavers know that there are so many different ways things can and will go. That supposition and scare mongering won't help.

Cupofteaandtoilet · 08/03/2018 16:12

Mummmy, so, do I have it right? You have no idea what the benefits of Brexit might be, or even if there will be any. You just wanted change.

?

TalkinPeace · 08/03/2018 16:13

mummmy
I find it odd how your demands for answer when met with an honest Answer of we don't know yet as it's Not happened, are not acknowledged.
But what we DO know is that Housing policy and Austerity are entirely the construct of Whitehall.
They have never been under the influence of the EU.
So what makes you think they will change after Brexit?
What makes you think your vote was not utterly wasted as nothing will change the way you want it to ?

Cupofteaandtoilet · 08/03/2018 16:14

Mummmy, I'm sorry I didn't acknowledge your answer sooner - I didn't realise it was an answer. Soz

mummmy2017 · 08/03/2018 16:15

I have spent most of my life aware of how the EU have like weed infected every part of the UK. Sorry I know you don't like it. But the only chance to ever get out had to be worth a vote...

mummmy2017 · 08/03/2018 16:19

I am not the only one who voted to leave. Had I been then yes. You all have every right to upset with me. But this isn't just me is it , this is what Millions are willing to brave, to be this way , WHY do you think so many of us walked into this with our eyes wide open?

Cupofteaandtoilet · 08/03/2018 16:21

Mummmy, thank you :) The EU has infected us like a weed. Gotcha. So the benefit of leaving is that we'll be weed-free. This weed - how did the infection manifest itself? What did it do that was bad? Genuine question.

TalkinPeace · 08/03/2018 16:21

I have spent most of my life aware of how the EU have like weed infected every part of the UK
But that does not answer my question.

Why do you expect Tory suck up to house developers homes policy will change after Brexit?
Why do you expect Tory shrink the welfare state back to the 30's austerity will change after Brexit?
Why do you think child poverty targets will change after Brexit?
Why do you think school and local government budget policy will change after Brexit?

as all four of those are sectors where the EU leaves every country to do its own thing ....

mummmy2017 · 08/03/2018 16:26

What if Brexit does work.
What if we do find managing our own money, and not having to pay millions to the EU works?
How can you know what 10 years will bring?

Cupofteaandtoilet · 08/03/2018 16:27

Mummmy, I'm not upset with you. I'm upset with David Cameron & Theresa May. I'm upset with unscrupulous, duplicitous newspaper 'reporting'. But I'm not upset with you.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 08/03/2018 16:31

Please share your opinion Faith. I have asked politely and I promise to listen and not dispute. I'm sure you are a strong woman - you certainly come across as such - so surely you can put up with a bit of barracking from others?

Sorry cupoftea, but no.

I'm sure you're a perfectly nice person & I'm not trying to be horrid to you at all.

Since the Ref I have put up with the continued barracking of pissed off remainers - it still goes on now, but at least there's just the few die-hards left on these threads.

Perhaps someone else can be bothered to put up with the inevitable onslaught & will engage with you in a meaningful way, but it won't be me.

On the previous thread a couple of leavers (me included) discussed Liam Fox's speech, and how that was the vision we shared re the future trade possibilities - that may help to shed some light on one of the motivations that some of us had for voting leave.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 08/03/2018 16:34

Silly me, just seen the answers to mummmy - should've guessed it was another faux innocent 'question'.

thecatfromjapan · 08/03/2018 16:36

It's not scaremongering - these are actual, real projections. They've been produced because long-term planning is necessary. What's more, they're considered an understatement by most people who work in the actual industries affected.

But I'm going to try a different approach.

I don't know you mummy. You write as though you are already suffering from the government's ill-advised, misguided, ideologically-driven austerity programme. I'll assume that's who you are.

So, suppose you've found it tricky to manage over the last few years. You;ve found it increasingly difficult to access the things we need to live - health services would be a good example but we might include education cuts and their impact there as well. And we can assume that, economically, things are tight.

If someone came up to you in the street and said: "Put an 'X' here on this piece of paper and I will make sure that health care provision is seriously reduced, in fact, I will probably look into closing your local hospital, and free treatment for expensive conditions (cancer, maybe?) will be removed. I'll throw in decreased funding for education (that may work out to be very interesting, with those at the very bottom getting a very basic education, with extremely large class sizes) and reduced council services," would you sign that 'X'?

No. You wouldn't. Because you'd be deranged.

That, effectively, is what you have done, though.

The Referendum never, ever promised an end to austerity or re-distribution of income, or re-investment. It was purely and simply about opting out of a very large trade (and power) bloc, which conferred large economic advantages (and some social and political ones) on the UK.

Having destroyed a large part of the UK's income stream, there is going to be less income in the UK.

Moreover, the income that remains will be very unfairly shared out - it is going to rest in a smaller number of pockets, in a smaller number of locations, and it will be shared less.

Lastly, my strong suspicion is that if the right wing media can get a sizeable fraction of the UK population to vote against their interests to the extent of voting for a calamity like Brexit, there is a real possibility that the next General Election will not see a Nordic-style soft-socialist government in power. Which leaves us facing the calamity of Brexit under a government that is not very interested in sharing diminished resources equitably.

I genuinely don't understand where your sanguine indifference about the effects of a 10% cut to GDP (albeit over 15 years), job losses, loss of rights on real people comes from. I honestly think it has to be a psychological defence because, actually, you do know what you have voted for, you do know that this is going to make your children's lives harder, and you have trouble facing up to that.

Cupofteaandtoilet · 08/03/2018 16:36

Mummmy, the only way I have of making an educated estimation of the effects of leaving the EU is by listening to experts.

Okay, we don't know if there will be any benefits so we're leaving, not for benefit but, to escape the clutches of the corrupt EU?

Back to the weed/infection - what has the EU done that you consider so bad? I really want to get behind Brexit.

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