The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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No kicking off on this thread!!!

Bear has kindly set up another (non-pub) thread, so that leaves this one free for the Brexiteers!!!

Good speech by Theresa May today - onwards to Brexit 🍻🇬🇧

Irish citizens in NI cannot have recourse to the EU government or judicial system superseding the UK one. They have to suck it up or leave. Which is what Irish people in NI have had to do for generations.
And Irish people in mainland UK.

Then I'm sure at least Torygraph will be happy to publish their work, unless of course it's too bonkers even for them. The bar is pretty low given that they publish BoJo's confabulations.

Most of their (non Brexit) Work has been published in peer reviewed journals etc - they're respected academics and/or experts in their field; some of the submissions specifically to do with Brexit are extracts from their (published in peer reviewed journals) articles.
All points made in their submissions are supported & referenced.

Do you think their work is 'bonkers' purely because you refuse to accept any pro-brexit analysis?

I am not just blindly accepting everything I read from there btw, and they welcome scrutiny and challenges as 'groupthink' is what they want to avoid.

I have neither the time nor the resources to confirm your statements. If true then again Torygraph should be more than happy to publish them - or who knows, even the Economist maybe. I don't have time to read little alt-right sites, although I'm sure they are fascinating in some ways.

I have neither the time nor the resources to confirm your statements. If true then again Torygraph should be more than happy to publish them - or who knows, even the Economist maybe. I don't have time to read little alt-right sites, although I'm sure they are fascinating in some ways.

Not time nor resources?
Kk - although they make it pretty straightforward for you by providing it all, right there on the site.

They've been published in all the MSM, and regularly appear on R4 & various political tv programs (including, but not limited to bbc & Sky)

It's not an 'alt-right' site - not sure where you got that impression tbh - in fact the contributors are from across the political spectrum.

I understand the issue of NI being treated differently to rUK, but you’re also missing the point that there are residents in the north of Ireland who are not and will never be British, as is their right under the GFA.

The UK government has committed to upholding the GFA and it’s application in practice. Which includes EU citizens rights. Which are worth nothing if there is no mechanism by which to enforce them.

And that’s another circle that can’t be squared.

They have to suck it up or leave.

No they don’t. And that’s the whole point of having a binding international treaty to secure their rights.

Agnes, I think you and I are in broad agreement that the UK government is struggling to abide by its GFA obligations and deliver Brexit. It can't.
It deeply saddens me that despite posts here and obviously elsewhere in the run up to the vote, Leavers refused to see it.
I genuinely want Irish citizens in NI to get all they are entitled to and I don't really give a shit if I don't get the same in mainland UK. My concern is that the Unionists will see this as a betrayal and, as they prop up TM's government, they will scupper anything that looks like deference to ROI and start the whole crappy fight again.

gussy definitely in agreement on that.

TM must be rueing the day she called the 2017 GE.

"Kk - although they make it pretty straightforward for you by providing it all, right there on the site."

So trustworthiness of any information on the Web is primarily a function of:
a) Obviously some intrinsic trust we put in the domain itself (in this case clearly zero at best)
b) The trust we put in the source(s) referring us to the domain (ditto)

Again, I look forward to the material being accepted by any at least marginally mainstream publishers. The fact that a paper got published in a journal, doesn't really mean there is any sort of consensus regarding the contents, nor is it a proof of its validity.

gussy
When I get my Irish passport, I will enjoy all the rights of an EU citizen. Even though I am living in mainland UK. As a dual British citizen. Same for my dd.
I have a blue passport as well as a purple one
but because I live in the UK I have to obey UK laws and regulations

the other passport does not give me any rights other than queue jumping at JFK

an Irish passport will make no difference to you when you live in the UK
and you'll still queue at the border with everybody else to enter and leave the EU

So trustworthiness of any information on the Web is primarily a function of:
a) Obviously some intrinsic trust we put in the domain itself (in this case clearly zero at best)
b) The trust we put in the source(s) referring us to the domain (ditto)

No.

But all the contributors have put their names & faces to it & are well known in their fields.

They have appeared in person in/on MSM acknowledging that it is them & not imposters.

That's enough for me - I highly doubt there is elaborate human cloning going on tbh, but if you are of the tinfoil hat, David Icke persuasion then I understand why you are exercising caution.

Again, I look forward to the material being accepted by any at least marginally mainstream publishers. The fact that a paper got published in a journal, doesn't really mean there is any sort of consensus regarding the contents, nor is it a proof of its validity.

Their work (on Brexit related issues) has appeared in/on all MSM in UK; their broader work is featured further afield.

Still curious as to why you think it's an 'alt right' site/group of people though.

'No.'

:D

"They have appeared in person in/on MSM acknowledging that it is them & not imposters."

Happy to take a look at any actual MSM links.

All going swimmingly then.

Yep, a victory for Putin, Emperor Xi and The Donald.

I think I'm more depressed than I've ever been. This is a total fucking disaster. When will the UK wake up to the idiocy that is Brexit? Listening to a radio talk show (I know), and the callers are in complete denial - many are still insisting that the EU is full of 'fat cats' with 'jetset lifestyles' and that it is 'crumbling'. They have nothing but Daily Mail/Express soundbites and totally ignore what is going on around us.

Realise I'll be flamed for this post. Please reassure me Leavers.

What is "going on around us"?

@howabout Do you live in a cave somewhere in Snowdonia?

London I am a little offended you clearly pay very little attention to my posts, so I'll save my posting fingers. [whisky] [heather] [haggis] [polar bear cub]

Do you think it's all hunky dory howabout?

Do you think we'll have exactly the same access to EU markets? Do you think it will make a difference if we don't?

Are you not in the least bit concerned about all of the calls from industry for certainty re Brexit?

The Irish border
The divisions within the UK
The daily news items warning of jobs leaving because of Brexit
The cost of administering Brexit and replacing shared EU functions
The damage to our international reputation
UK isolation and diminishing influence
Loss of rights for UK citizens living in EU
Loss of rights for EU citizens in UK
The effort being put into Brexit that could be spent elsewhere to far greater benefit
The lack of any reputable possitive impact statements

I could go on but that's probably enough for you to pick apart for now.

What on Earth do you think the benefits will be which will outweigh the negatives?

@Cupofteaandtoilet you've missed the thing about flying as well. I like this one. It's a hoot.

Yes Olivia, I did mention that one yesterday. And there's also the loss of EU workers in various sectors including health & social care, paying to have associate membership (if even possible) of agencies, Euratom, The costs of customs infrastructure and systems (for us and the rest of Europe), etc. It's shit. What's the point?

Have I read corrrectly that Tusk says we can have zero tariff on goods?

I've read it in a few places today but no one is making a big deal out of it.

Would that solve the NI issue or would country of origin etc still be a problem?

Talkin', except with an Irish passport my dd has FOM and can study anywhere in EU. Nice to know we can jump the queue at JFK, we visit family in the US every year.

EU going beyond the usual FTA by offering zero tariffs for industrial goods and agriculture and fisheries - but UK and EU not in a customs union so rules of origin checks will still apply.

And requires EU access to UK fishing waters.

EU also ruling out third country access to EU authorities, although there may be a treaty available on aviation.

Bear the Guardian has a rolling feed. Reporting zero tariffs offer. Wouldn't solve the problem of non-tariff barriers ie regulatory alignment / mutual recognition.

PH suggesting UK would reject any deal excluding services.

"A trade deal will only happen if it is fair and balances the interests of both sides. Given the shape of the British economy and our trade balance with the EU27, it is hard to see how any deal which didn’t include services could look like a fair and balanced settlement.

I’m clear not only that it is possible to include financial services in a trade deal, but it is very much in our mutual interests to do so."