Westministenders: KAAAAABBBOOOOOOOOMMMMM

[RedToothBrush]

'Quick' Recap.

Once upon a time, despite warnings to the contrary after previously attempting to recreate a speech from the 1930s, Theresa May triggered a50.

A series of events, which included a disastrous unnecessary General Election and losing seats, ensured that we have Brexit by Timetable in which every piece of goodwill was burnt up a long time ago, and the EU decided to go "see ya then".

Only this General Election, made this politically impossible as well as practically impossible, given how this would destroy our economy.

So May did the only thing she could and agreed to lock us in with sufficient progress deal, which is legally binding, if no deal is agreed. Thus giving us in essence a choice between staying in the Single Market and Customs Union due to NI or breaking an international agreement which would destroy all our international credibility and trust.

Except none of the Brexiteers really grasped what was happening. Until this week.

In the meantime we still have had spectacles of Nadine Dorries asking on the infamous WhatsApp Group why we can't stay in the CU. Any Davis saying that he has now apparently 'changed his mind' on the matter. Not that Labour are any better, with Corbyn saying we can't stay in the Single Market and leave the EU. Except of course, Norway is in the Single Market...

Fast forward through a sex scandal that's swept through Westminster, installing self appointing the vampiric Gavin Williamson as Defence Secretary, we eventually ended up with a reshuffle which was possibly as pointless and as successful as the General Election. And Gavin Williamson is caught up in a sex scandal.

May has managed to drag the Great Repel Bill through the Commons, without breaking the party, but with much back room dealing and compromise with Remainers. Hailed as something of a victory by Brexiteers, this rather is a fools paradise. At what price to their ideological purity did this come? Is there much Brexit left? And there is much more to come in the Lords, with the LDs committed to working with Labour on securing at least 10 amendments. The two parties have a majority in the Lords if they work together.

Away from parliament we have had the glorious demise of Toby Young, who is forever to be remembered for eugenics.

As it has become apparent that we are increasingly looking like we are on track for BINO, the EU have told us, that we should have sucked up a compromise proposal earlier and now the Norway Option is off the table as we fucked that up by taking too long to disagree amongst ourselves and being arses to EU citz. I paraphrase slightly here, but that's about he long and short of it. Instead we get the pleasure of 21 months of the EU interfering in our law without representation. And we are already locked into this. Now Leavers can moan about this, and shock horror, actually be correct about it too! Transition will be up to 31st Dec 2020 at the latest. Which realistically is still too soon, not that any lying arsed Brexiteer is willing to admit to this. Yet.

The only way to get out of this proposal for better terms? Either beg the EU for something there is no way they will give us or revoke / extend a50.

The fall out from May's reshuffle is still going on in slow motion. Rees-Mogg has got a bigger platform to spout shit he knows nothing about, admit that he has never changed a nappy nor wiped his own arse, thinks women should give birth to football teams, and how he has never visited IKEA and has no plans to do so. Johnson has tried to build bridges. And effed that one up again. Gove has made us all be obsessed by plastic straws and turn into environmental maniacs because no other minister is good at press releases and media stunts. Arch Remainac Liddington, got Deputy PM and took over Brexshit even more from DExEU. Hunt is in no way after becoming PM and Greening is really pissed and when straight back to lead from the Naughty Step.

To cut the long story short: they all hate May and think she's shit

There are thought to be nearly 48 letters to trigger a leadership election in Graham Brady's hands. But not quite. And its not about the letters its about needing 159 MPs to no confidence her... but that is starting to sound more and more plausible in the face of Brexshit hitting the fan.

We now have a leaked impact assessment that we really were not supposed to see which is slightly less worse than Project Fear. But not by much. Its supposed to be by DExEU. Its been suggested that its actually by alt-DExEU aka the Cabinet Department (Robbins and Liddington).

Anyway, nothing is decided. May might zombie on forever. She won't, she's in a crowded field of Tories with stakes. But that sub-committee meeting on Wed 7th Feb is crunch time for something or someone.

Tick tock, tick tock, went the Brexit Clock.

Oh yeah and there's going to be a trade war between the US and EU. And there's some stuff about a ex-Belize diplomat. And Trump's coming to visit us.

elements I do mean that seriously though, there genuinely are women footballers who can more than match the men out there. And all they'd get for it annually is a fraction of a worse playing mans weekly wage.

About this men identifying as women lark, which makes me very uncomfortable - should women self-identify as men and attempt to storm male only organisations? I suspect that would kill the whole thing stone dead.
Except it’s not going to happen because as women, we have been socialised to be quiet and get on with things wo making a fuss.
That’s also why we dint hear about trans men. They are not and will never a threat to men (also because they are very probably still seen as a woman and treated as such)

About this men identifying as women lark, which makes me very uncomfortable - should women self-identify as men and attempt to storm male only organisations?

No argument from me ...

I knew "self identification" would end in tears after an interesting debate with the NUS president at Uni in 1984, although I knew it was well intentioned. (The road to hell etc.). Frankly, it's surprising it took this long. Maybe this is what the internet was invented for ?

BigChoc I agree with you re voting and how the way some political parties are treating women.
The problem is, bar the Women’s equality party, who can we vote for??

they need to realise that some feminists will regard them as the enemy - and withhold their vote.

This comes uncomfortably close to the enemies of the people type language beloved of brexiters.

I also think that this is a classic Bernie Bros style "argument from privilege". Privileged people can afford ideological decisions - "I won't vote for you because you're not pure enough, so I'll hand the election to a racist sex pest".

Quite a lot of us are discussing who to vote for on this thread if you want to join in. Then we can get back to Brexit on here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3166682-Spectator-article-Dont-fall-for-it-people?pg=1&order=

Yesterday I heard Theresa May is setting out her plans for Brexit in a couple of weeks. I thought she already did that in Florence.

Dobby

You're not going to get any argument from me about the injustice of women's pay in return for their talent. It stinks to high heaven.

But, sorry, I'm also a scientist. Whatever our (women's) skills, abilities, intelligence and ideals - physically we are a sexually dimorphic species. In general men have denser, stronger bones, tendons, and ligaments; higher relative and total muscle mass; greater lung capacity and blood circulatory systems. When it comes to sports, there's a reason why they are mostly sex-segregated.

(Incidentally AIBU to be frustrated that the trans-fuss seems to have permeated the whole site and even derailed this thread?)

Yesterday I heard Theresa May is setting out her plans for Brexit in a couple of weeks. I thought she already did that in Florence.

The (good ?) thing is, most Brexiteers seem to think that's all that is needed. A load of speeches.

We return to the suggestion that most Brexiteers would not have noticed of we'd declared on the 24th June that we were out of the EU, and that's all sorted. Now what's on TV tonight.

Obviously saying that opens the door to accusations of smug arrogance. However the killer fact is that almost two years on you still can't get two Brexiteers to agree on what Leave looks - or looked - like.

Married - the WEP was one of the earliest political proponents of self-ID so they don't offer much of an alternative either .

misti "Enemies of the People" is naming and shaming specific people to millions, highlighting their details for possible violence,
worst case assassination

It is FUCKING RUBBISH to say that withholding my vote from certain political parties in protest at policies is anything like that
I am not threatening anyone, just using my vote

It is RadFems who have become Enemies of the People, who risk losing their jobs if they speak out,
who face bloodthirsty threats of murder, torture and rape
who have suffered actual violence at the hands of men, TRA activists

My vote is my main weapon. I will use it as I choose
If parties remove my existing rights either a woman, or as a person of colour, I can and will choose NEVER to vote for them.

No party is "entitled" to my vote
I will inform parties of the issue that is stopping me voting for them
I will not threaten them with murder or rape

However the killer fact is that almost two years on you still can't get two Brexiteers to agree on what Leave looks - or looked - like.

This for me is the frustration as a Remainer. We are mostly united - we want to retain the status quo. So why can't we get our voice heard more? Admittedly we have got a rabid right wing press against us, which is a huge hindrance.

Nick Clegg: How to Stop Brexit has some good ideas. Corbyn managed to fling the right wing curse from his back in 2017 by organising locally and linking up campaign groups. In the end, the press made fools of themselves, they looked hysterical.

SO to Stop Brexit:

• write to your MP - I've written to 3 in city of my birth plus Emily Thornbury. MPs need to here supportive messages. If they are to change tack or put pressure on their leaders, they need to know they aren't doing it in a vacuum. I've had two replies. I think it is a drop in the ocean but a drop to the good.

• join a party - Clegg says join Lab or Tory. I've just joined the Lib Dems because a/ they are overtly against Brexit, and b/ they are small enough that they could well be responsive to change on the whole self-ID saga.

• join a pressure group - or several. I support my local xx for Britain. They organise weekly stalls around the whole county through FB. They also support the neighbouring counties' stalls. We talk to people in the streets, chat, hand out stickers, get them to sign up. It keeps the remainers in the minds of everyday people. You may be surprised that there is a lot of grassroots' support even in heavily leave places.

• go on a march. There are a couple biggies organised this year in London. I hope to go along to one at least.

Any other ideas?

Absolutely mother
Ive also argued before that complete brexit, though probably not necessary if we'd sort our own shit out, was totally achievable in a minimising damage (not damage free) way if we'd gone slowly, in ways like the Norths have been suggesting.

+ join a party - Clegg says join Lab or Tory.

I read his book, and I think it was a bit more nuanced than this - it depended where you lived and what party tended to get returned. I joined the LibDems because I live in an area which had had a LibDem MP until 2010, so there was a good chance that we would be able to get the Tory out at the next election. And, oh joy, TM called the election 3 years early and we got rid of our Tory MP earlier than expected. She too was caught out by TM calling the election, she appeared to be asleep on the job but would have woken up a year before the election was due.

Just listened to Andrew Rossendale blithely state on Sky News that NI doesn't need to be a problem and that it can be easily sorted if the EU wants it to be sorted

He then went on to repeat the old tropes that we were an international seafaring trading nation and that we can go back to being that

So all my DS will still be able to have 'cheapo stag dos in historic cities' after B day.
Excellent. Boris has spoken. All clear now so I can relax.

So all my DS will still be able to have 'cheapo stag dos in historic cities' after B day.

Almost certainly. Visa requirements and costs would need to be bottomed out.

But with TMs rhetoric, hs can kiss goodbye to studying or working within the EU.

^It is FUCKING RUBBISH to say that withholding my vote from certain political parties in protest at policies is anything like that
I am not threatening anyone, just using my vote^

I was referring to your language - people who disagree with you are "enemies" - not your voting behaviour (your vote is yours to do with as you please).

I'd have hoped that we had learnt from Brexit that calling your political opponents enemies, traitors etc is not conducive to rational debate. It only makes divides deeper.

+ join a party - Clegg says join Lab or Tory.

It would probably help enormously if some ordinary Tory voters - people like my work colleagues - were to join the party. Membership is so small now that the balance could easily be changed. But a lot of these people (pro business, socially moderate Tory voters) now feel totally disenfranchised. It is quite hard to see the Tory party surviving Brexit in its current form.

+ join a party - Clegg says join Lab or Tory.

Sorry, but you can fuck that right off. The way things are going, both parties would just claim it's more backing for Brexit.

Fortunately DG he's one of the lucky ones who might still have that option, being dual nat. We're preparing him for that option as if he studies in Europe he could graduate debt free.

Sorry, but you can fuck that right off. The way things are going, both parties would just claim it's more backing for Brexit.

Tory party members may soon get to vote for party leader, allowing members to make their views clear in the same way that new members of the Labour Party did with Corbyn.

I couldn't stomach it myself but the party could do with a few more business friendly one nation Tory types in their ranks. In fact the party is probably dead if it can't recruit those people. It will literally die out.

Darth...what country can you study in and graduate debt free?
apart from the UK back in the day

I really must get on with sorting out our Irish passports