The Brexit Arms

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Welcome to The Brexit Arms!
Looking forwards, not backward!

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So Faith as you voted for Brexit can we assume you agree it will make studying in Europe more difficult and you think that is a good thing?

I think it is a bad thing, I have explained why. It would be good it you could say why you think making study abroad more difficult is a good thing.

"My family are loaded and can study anywhere they want" is not really a great response to the problem of free European education no longer being available to UK students.

Double traditionally most people studying abroad have been language students. However, more students are studying other subjects. Many universities in The Netherlands and Denmark teach certain subjects in English thus making it accessible to English speaking students.

It was becoming increasingly more common and without Brexit, I think, it would become increasingly common. I think more British students studying and living in Europe would be good for the UK. Removing this potential and opportunity, or making it substantially harder, is a bad thing. This is one of the many reasons I do not support Brexit.

*So Faith as you voted for Brexit can we assume you agree it will make studying in Europe more difficult and you think that is a good thing?

I think it is a bad thing, I have explained why. It would be good it you could say why you think making study abroad more difficult is a good thing.*

This is an absurd line of questioning.

It would be the same thing as 'do you voted for labour, and the labour govt took us into the Iraq war - ergo you believe war is a good thing.

I voted for brexit.
One aspect is that there will be slightly more difficult to study in the Eu than it was as a member state.
It will not however be impossible to do so.

I do not 'think it is a good thing', but this does not by extension mean I think it is the end of the world.

@Doubletrouble99

Says nothing about work visas though. Automatic work visas in the EU will be lost through Brexit.

No doubt that fact will give one or two on this thread some Schadenfreude.

Faith you won't give reasons or explain your train of though so we must extrapolate. It would be easier if you told us what you believed and explained why. Then we wouldn't have to make assumptions.

However, you refuse to debate or explain. You just want "chit chat".

I don't think ending ease of study abroad is "the end of the world" but I do think limiting horizons is generally a bad thing. I think limiting the ability to live and work in other communities is a bad thing. I want to widen participation and offer educational involvement abroad to as many people as possible. Restricting educational opportunity is not good.?

You?

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation

I asked a question. You ignored.

Can we assume from your silence that race and immigration were drivers of your decision to leave? It is your right to hold that view. It is not illegal.

I got one answer today - I don't fancy your chances much OliviaD68

Paying full fees is not "slightly more difficult" - it's impossible for many if not most. Yet this problem is just a fraction of the overall barrage of plights and maladies to be brought upon UK's scientific and educational landscape by Brexit. Do Brexiters care?

Mouse - The point I was making was that I really don't think it would become more difficult to study in Europe after Brexit. My family have studied in both Europe and Australia and New Zealand, none of them had a problem to go to any of these countries to study. Why should that change now?
My nephew in Australia is studying design and his university has links with one in the Netherlands and they often go over there to and vis versa. I can't see that changing, it still highlights their links in the uni. prospectus.
Many more students from the EU come to the UK to study, mainly because we speak English, if that changes it will mean more places available for British students, which I know is a real problem for Scottish students in Scotland.

And let's not forget repeating the same post pretty much verbatim like double just did.

Post grad courses at public German unis for instance are quite popular - very low fees, reasonable cost of living and many courses taught in English.

That will change - one German region is now introducing fees for non-EU students, it’s thought that other regions will follow. Add in student visas where you need to demonstrate a healthy wad of cash and private health care and it will become as unaffordable as UK courses.

I got one answer today - I don't fancy your chances much OliviaD68

Happy to answer questions if the poster is reasonable mousse.

Olivia is not.

@LondonMum8

You're right. A more thoughtful post which I've heard might have been:

Immigration was a driver for me. I'm concerned by the social pressures caused by different cultures living side by side. My perception is this has reached an uncomfortable level. Jobs are being taken by migrants from many countries instead of domestic Brits and I think that's unfair.

Londonmum - Was "my family are loaded and can study where ever they want" aimed at me?

Ok faith, here's my question for you:-

If the only Leave option, as is looking likely, is to retain full access to the SM by paying for it and abiding by EU rules- will you be satisfied with Brexit?

At least you're starting to realise that your vote will have negative consequences. Maybe when you realise the pain and destruction you have wrought on many people you will begin to learn compassion

No, I realised when I ticked my box that it wouldn’t be sunlit uplands, rainbows and unicorns. I voted for the long game.

JRWM - I have DCs in their teens.

Faith as politely and reasonably as possible. Several posters have added detail and facts to my statement about studying abroad. After Brexit it will be significantly more difficult and significantly more costly. I think this is a bad thing for individuals and as a county it makes us more inward looking and less internationally competitive.

I think restricting study abroad will have a significant impact on scientific research and our standing in the world generally.

This is not my area of expertise but posters have provided facts and links (now and on other threads) I have read these links and it has confirmed my opinion that Brexit is a bad thing for higher education.

You voted for Brexit do you have any concerns about how it will negatively impact upon university study and research?

I wouldn't bear, no.

I have always had a pragmatic view about Brexit - I would be ok with EEA/EFTA style initially for example over a cliff edge 'hard' Brexit.

I'm not impressed at all with the way it's been handled so far, but I don't honestly think labour would not have been any better.

That’s an interesting question Bear, as leaving the EU but with an EFTA style deal absolutely fulfils the wording on the Referendum ballot paper but is seen as unacceptable by some/many Leavers.

I agree re labour. It's not party specific; we are simply too entwined with the EU to actually leave.

Leavers were offered something that can never be delivered.

The fact is now my scenario is looking increasingly like the only viable option so what the feck will the point have been?

The issue is not party political. The UK does not have enough experienced skilled trade negotiators - this is a function of the civil service, or bureaucrats as Brexiters call them. The EU values people with these skills and has lots of them, that's why they make good trade deals.

Sometimes a functioning, trained, skilled bureaucracy is a good thing. When people said the EU was admin heavy it was these people they were paying for. That is why (one of many reasons) they have the upper hand in the negotiations.