The Brexit Arms

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Welcome to The Brexit Arms!
Looking forwards, not backward!

All welcome 🍺

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I think I've just proved remainers have unicorns too.

But it is a very fine looking unicorn. And at least I know my unicorn is a unicorn.

I agree with you both. Both opinions are valid here. We shall see how the facts develop.

Lol mousse 🦄🦄🦄🦄🦄🦄

Hi Everyone, just gatecrashing the thread with a wee reminder to post within talk guidelines.

We can see there's huge passion for this debate but we'd hate to see the thread full of holes.......

Brexit starting to bite, Bear. This might increase discontent and change opinion. What do you think?

Projected wage growth, 2018. (OECD).

Poland: +3.8%
Israel: +3%
South Korea: +1.9%
Sweden: +1.5%
Ireland: +1.3%
US: +1.2%
Netherlands: +1.1%
Portugal: +1.1%
Norway: +1.1%
Canada: +1%
Germany: +0.9%
France: +0.8%
Australia: +0.4%
Japan: +0.3%
Greece: +0.2%
Italy: -0.6%
UK: -0.7%

Facts and figures don't matter olivia, it's the feeling in your waters that counts!

This is due to the rate of inflation.
Also the value of the pound, which is low because of the uncertainty due to the out come of the Referendum.
So shout the markets suddenly think the outcome is not as bleak as forcast, and the pound rises, say due to the Election in Italy then over night this - figure would then fluctuate, so it's not a indicator that is a fixed point, for more than the month it is taken at.

@Bearbehind

I concede. You got me again. Perception over reality indeed.

Olivia these figures are totally related to inflation and currency, should this change for any or all the the countries listed, the the figures will change, Which is why they are usually updated on a rolling monthly basis.

I do however concur that this means they can go up or down, and almost never stay static.

Even allowing for fluctuation the UK figures are worse than other countries.

This is due to the amount the pound has fallen and the amount this has increased inflation, sort of like a double hit.

Germany and France have both profited from the Euro rise, yet are not at the top of the table. Also only 17 countries are listed, so this slightly distorts the figures as well. imply the UK are the worst performing in the world, but we really only know how they are placed in relation to the countries listed...

Logical arguments, facts and data don't work on Brexit voters, and they seem to be very proud of the fact. Maybe it's indeed time for the machines to take over from the rapidly devolving human race?

"This is due to the amount the pound has fallen and the amount this has increased inflation, sort of like a double hit."

Yes, both of which are a direct result of the referendum! And are expected to get worse should we actually get around to leaving!

@LondonMum8

Don't despair. The majority is still broadly sensible. No need for Arnold just yet.

We knew Brexit would do this, it's not a surpirse.
After all Project Fear cost many millions to make this clear.
I listened to the news and the reports, read the papers and yes even understood in the run up and after mass of the vote, we would be losers.

But the main difference is that in order to leave the EU I accepted that all this would happen in the hope that being free to make trade deals
will be of profit to the UK and this a period of loss with one day be worth the gain. Long term view, rather than the remain short term view.

Ah, the old we knew it would be like this canard.

"We knew Brexit would do this, it's not a surpirse.
After all Project Fear cost many millions to make this clear."

In other words, it wasn't Project Fear, it was Project Reality.

And, basically, you don't care about destroying our economy, you just wanted to, I don't know, "take back control" or something...

If Project Fear predicted a fall in the value of the pound, increased inflation and falls in GDP and wage growth as a result of Brexit, and they have all come to pass, does that not make it Project Reality?

X post with Cardinal

No because it isn't as bad as project fear portrayed it.

Project fear was far far worse than it is now.

It's not going to DESTROY our economy, as I keep saying we will not end up sleeping in tents with no amenities and no money.

This was the largest ever voting result, by the British public. It's not like it was only 5% of us decided this, but you just can't accept this fact, as the result was not the one you wanted. You are unfortunately in the minority, and as you were unable to gain enough support you have to accept the results and if May holds onto her redlines you may find you like the results of the deal even less, but until you can vote to reverse this and take the majority of the British voters with you, the result stands.

www.oecd.org/eco/outlook/united-kingdom-economic-forecast-summary.htm

Economic growth will continue to weaken in 2018 and 2019. Private consumption is projected to remain subdued as higher inflation, pushed up by the past depreciation of sterling, holds back household purchasing power. The unemployment rate is at a record low, but with slower growth this is unlikely to persist. Exchange rate depreciation should support exports, while import growth is projected to fall owing to weaker private consumption. An agreement about a transition period linked to the EU exit after March 2019 is assumed and should support growth in 2018 and in 2019, reducing the extent to which uncertainty weighs on domestic spending. Prospects of maintaining the closest possible economic relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Union would further support economic growth.

Yup, sounds all roses doesn’t it?

So your arguements are all to do with your pockets, and your lose of income, extra costs on education, lose of value in your homes, loss of cheap holidays, money money money.
I feel lucky to love somewhere with a roof over my head, and access to food and water without a 1/2 day journey.
I was given a vote in a democratic country free from war, and exercised my vote as did 17 million plus people.
No I don't need or have to accept the bashing you keep trying to give me just because I voted for things to change, This is my right and I took that right and used it, you can't tar us all as uneducated idiots just because what we choose was different to what you choose.
The right to vote suffragettes, made it clear that it was the right to vote for everyone they fought for, and not the vote to vote the right way according to the upperclass...

But the main difference is that in order to leave the EU I accepted that all this would happen

That's good to know, sorry for all those affected by the decision who don't agree with it.

It's not going to DESTROY our economy

How do you know that? Have you read that reassurance in DM? What does it mean to destroy? A 10-20% relative drop in GDP would have drastic consequences, yet I'm sure Brexit zealots would claim it's all good, and totally worth it.

Britain can't afford any hits to the economy. Social services have already been cut to the bone, the NHS is falling apart, the budget hole is still there and predicted by the Brexit gov itself to balloon on account of Brexit. The gateway to Europe party is over - you've been conned by an ex City spiv who just resigned afterwards and is now claiming that we need another referendum :D I would feel very sorry for you if not for the fact that it's not just you who's affected!
Brexit is one of the biggest failures of democracy after perhaps the Germans voting for Hitler. Trump can be voted out/impeached, this mess will be much harder to clean up.

It's all ready happening.
Nothing we do will stop it.
Face reality, and accept it.

you've been conned by an ex City spiv who just resigned afterwards......

And you were conned by another spiv who told you all it wouldn’t happen and then resigned afterwards.

The unlikely one was the successful one, it’s a weird world.

That's all you have to say mummy2017? Thought so. Dream on though. It can be stopped or rolled back. However, a lot of damage has already done and more is inevitably coming, and we all need to accept that fact. Additionally, Leave voters need to accept the responsibility for the damage instead of blaming "Europe being difficult", "Germans uncooperative" etc. These are just the consequences of the vote.