Westministenders: Happy Xmas (War is Over) - if only

[RedToothBrush]

When is lying not lying. When you can get enough of your mates to agree it is not lying.

And so we have David Davis, who has made two statements to parliament which deliberately contradict each other and must constitute some sort of lie to parliament at some point however you cut it.

Will the Speaker risk the wrath of his party to uphold democratic values? We watch carefully.

Davis also reveals and exposes May too though. May one way or another is complicit in Davis’s lie, either through not doing her job in reading the reports or by protecting Davis when she knew the reports did not exist. This is gross misconduct in her inability to ensure her staff do their bloody jobs. All so she can keep her own job.

This is where whistleblowers in other institutions pop up.

It has also become apparent that May has not had THE conversation with the Cabinet over what shape Brexit should take. After 18months.
Why not? Is she incapable of consensus building or is she just incompetent?

And then we have the DUP seemingly not being properly being involved in the wording of the all important document.

Vote Leave’s Oliver Norgrove is perfectly right in saying that Hard Brexit is all but dead. Don’t let that make you feel happier. Hard Brexiteers know that there only option now, is No Deal and that’s what they will try and pursue.

There is no deal until everything is settled. Right now, nothing is settled, not even what the UK want out of Brexit, never mind the EU position.

May might well have blown the only opportunity for a deal too, because of her failure over NI and the DUP. Where does she go from here? The idea that she will stand up to anyone, is ludicrous given her track record.

We might all wish we could John Lennon's song was apt when it comes to this Christmas and Brexit, it seems the war for our future post Brexit, it seems it is only just starting.

David Davis‏Verified account
@DavidDavisMP
Pleasure, as ever, to speak to my friend @guyverhofstadt - we both agreed on the importance of the Joint Report. Let's work together to get it converted into legal text as soon as possible. 1/2

I look forward to working closely with the EP in the next phase, including on a top shared priority: ensuring admin procedures for citizens are as streamlined as possible in both the UK and EU. 2/2
@guyverhofstadt

RIckets. In the UK. In 2017.

Brexit. Taking us back to the 1800s.

Next stop: consumption, cholera, smallpox and typhoid; stopping at plague, death in childbirth, and a boom in baby coffins.

Thanks LH I saw a documentary where they showed beef farming in the US. it was disgusting, as far as the eye could see enormous great warehouse after warehouse jammed with 1,000's of cattle, which never see light of day, being intensively farmed and injected with hormones to make them grow faster. Even my DH, who is a very ruthless keen meat eater was repulsed.

The thing is we are not just talking about our economy changing and dropping a little bit, this whole debacle is threatening the very basics of what we do and what we eat.

Why can't we just kick the whole bloody thing into the long grass.Say we have heard the view of the 2016 referendum, that's helpful to know and the time may come to leave the EU but that time isn't now.Say we are going to give it 10 years and in that time:
a) work to address NHS, education, disenfranchisement, division and social mobility issues.
b) work with the EU to help evolve any reforms, if felt necessary.

The PCT of my county have stopped providing gluten free foods on prescription.
Also mild pain relievers such as aspirin and paracetamol (I use a.lot.of.both)
So soon will have issues of people not being able to get rid of pain due to lack of funds.
I started buying packs of painkillers some time ago before brexit hikes the price

Was chatting to dh last week and have told him in.2018.we need to start saving for private health care

Because it's happening

Now

The nhs is being destroyed

Maryz

An admirably concide summary of the situation. I take it to mean that unless the UK comes up with a magical solution in the case of Outcome 2, we would seem to be locked in to CU and SM, even in the event of no deal.

Do those Leavers professing satisfaction with the deal so far not grasp this implication? Anyway, whether they do or don't, what is now the logical or rational point of Brexit?

Oh my goodness painintheear is that really a verified account?

DD really said a pleasure, as ever, to speak to my friend @guyverhofstadt.? Let's work together to get it converted into legal text as soon as possible. Ha ha

There are 58 detailed impact assessments.
The are no impact assessments.

It's not legally binding.
Let's make it legally binding asap.

It all reminds me of the ex boyfriend of one of my Uni friends.This guy had been telling her he loved her etc.He then went off with some-one else under a week later! When she discussed it all with him, and said why did you say all that lovey stuff, he said " I meant it when I said it."

That phrase has often come back to me over the years, and seems appropriate now.Our politicians seem able to say or tweet anything.Then do the opposite 24 hours later.Are we supposed to accept this because "they meant it when they said it"?

Oh! And specialised infant formula too.

😡😡😡😡😡

It's a summary of an ITV news report lonelyplanetmum. Sorry, I should have said - if you click on the link there's a brief video clip.

Amendment 7 coming up tomorrow. My MP is obviously not going to vote for it (though credit to him, he wrote back fairly promptly explaining why) and I can't imagine it would get passed but:

Anushka Asthana‏
@GuardianAnushka
Definite signal from government is that they aren't planning to compromise on Dominic Grieve's amendment 7 - calling for meaningful vote for MPs/peers on Brexit.

Presumably government thinks it has the votes... But so do rebels. So this could be very tight.

But so do rebels. So this could be very tight.

But the Labour rebels will swing it for the Tories, and only later come to realise that they have betrayed their constituents.

lonely, I think you are giving them the benefit, there.

When Mordaunt said the UK have no veto and Turkey was on the march. And Johnson said farmers in NI might have even more money. When Farage said you could unilaterally slap triffs on the EU under WTO (without any trade agreements). They didn't really mean it. They wanted to muddy the waters and influence people with their bunkum. Aside from the outright lies.

DD either believed there were 58 impact assessments (soz analyses on sectoral impact) or he meant there were none?

Hasenstein, my take on it is that the UK government don't understand it, therefore it's probably too much to expect the average Leaver (or Remainer for that matter) to understand it!

And they aren't going to as long as everyone tells the lie that suits their own "side" - with obviously politicians and so-called journalists having the loudest voices

I have to say, this thread has been an eye-opener on a wide range of issues

the Labour rebels will swing it for the Tories
*s

Kudos to @GeraintDaviesMP for coming out to support us yesterday and giving a rousing speech in quite cool weather.

Brexit: EU sets March deadline for Britain to decide what kind of trade deal it wants

Senior EU officials want 'more clarity'

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-european-council-summit-march-deadline-single-market-customs-union-theresa-may-a8105716.html

[...]“When it comes for the framework for future relations we expect more clarity from our UK colleagues about what the end state, their end objective is,” a senior EU official said ahead of the summit.

“I would say that the time between now and the March European Council is the last call to London to put more details on what is their vision of the framework for the future relations.

“Until now we have heard it’s no single market, no customs union, but it’s a bespoke partnership. If no new elements will come from London then we will work on that basis. We will work on the basis of no customs union and no single market.”^

Leaders will meet to discuss Brexit on Friday after other business at the European Council has been dealt with – including migration quotas and the creation of a European Monetary Fund.

It is understood that EU officials were spooked after Chancellor Philip Hammond told MPs earlier this week that the Cabinet had not yet discussed the end goal of Brexit, while Brexit Secretary David Davis revealed to another committee that the 58 studies into Brexit’s impact, which he previously claimed existed, did not in fact exist.

A European Commission communiqué to the European Council, released on Friday, illustrated the doubts in Brussels about the practicality of the UK’s approach, warning that it “seems hard to reconcile” the UK’s plan to leave the single market and customs union with commitments made over Northern Ireland in the first phase of talks.

Maryz

^my take on it is that the UK government don't understand it, therefore it's probably too much to expect the average Leaver (or Remainer for that matter) to understand it!

And they aren't going to as long as everyone tells the lie that suits their own "side" - with obviously politicians and so-called journalists having the loudest voices hmm

I have to say, this thread has been an eye-opener on a wide range of issues shock^

Surely they can'tall be that thick?? Anyway, it seems as though the EU has understood it very well:

A European Commission communiqué to the European Council, released on Friday, illustrated the doubts in Brussels about the practicality of the UK’s approach, warning that it “seems hard to reconcile” the UK’s plan to leave the single market and customs union with commitments made over Northern Ireland in the first phase of talks.

You can see it, the EU can see it, even I can see it. Why is it invisible to the government and Leavers? None so blind as them that will not see, I suppose.

And I agree wholeheartedly with your last comment. I'm far better informed (and enlightened) since stumbling over MN.

We've been discussing this on the "Ireland" thread in In The News for the last couple of weeks.

We all know that it's impossible to have similar treatment for NI and the rest of the UK alongside sticking to the terms of the Good Friday Agreement and the Common Travel Area. It's incredible to me that May keeps saying "we will have no hard border in Ireland", "NI will have the same treatment as the rest of the UK" and "we will leave the Customs Union, the Single Market and the EU".

Those statements are impossible to reconcile.

I think the EU officials (and Varadkar and Coveney) are on the ball with this.

They are being very polite in not instantly calling May and Davis on telling lies

I wonder how long their patience will last.

On all the heroes like mrsreynolds working to provide the hungry with food this xmas, found this spooky little quote. I was naive. Not so much now.

“Until now we have heard it’s no single market, no customs union, but it’s a bespoke partnership. If no new elements will come from London then we will work on that basis. We will work on the basis of no customs union and no single market.”

Good ! Seems the EU is starting to take the initiative, and leading from the front. One can hardly blame them with the A50 clock ticking.

Whilst I expect all the usual Eusteria from the Brexiteers, I can't think of a better way to honour the great British man of letters, Dr. Johnson, who observed ...

“Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully.”

If nothing else, Brexit or no Brexit, we will always have the English language. The greatest language in the world. The language of Wilde, of Shaw, of Sheridan .....

Urdu's not bad.

Arguably more useful. I vote we use it. Looks nice too.

woman11017

Great Kissinger quote ... funnily enough, we saw Omid Djalilis new show last night (he's made it available for free for prostate charity).

You know, it wasn't until I actually visited Ground Zero, and saw what was going on there that I realised ... just how much America needs oil.

The language of Wilde, Shaw and Sheridan. but probably wasted on Fox, Davis and May. Probably understood by Johnson.

I feel weary today

Esther Webber‏
@estwebber
Looks like another potential govt defeat on Brexit bill averted as Dominic Grieve offers backing to a sifting committee for Henry VIII powers