Westministenders: Happy Xmas (War is Over) - if only

[RedToothBrush]

When is lying not lying. When you can get enough of your mates to agree it is not lying.

And so we have David Davis, who has made two statements to parliament which deliberately contradict each other and must constitute some sort of lie to parliament at some point however you cut it.

Will the Speaker risk the wrath of his party to uphold democratic values? We watch carefully.

Davis also reveals and exposes May too though. May one way or another is complicit in Davis’s lie, either through not doing her job in reading the reports or by protecting Davis when she knew the reports did not exist. This is gross misconduct in her inability to ensure her staff do their bloody jobs. All so she can keep her own job.

This is where whistleblowers in other institutions pop up.

It has also become apparent that May has not had THE conversation with the Cabinet over what shape Brexit should take. After 18months.
Why not? Is she incapable of consensus building or is she just incompetent?

And then we have the DUP seemingly not being properly being involved in the wording of the all important document.

Vote Leave’s Oliver Norgrove is perfectly right in saying that Hard Brexit is all but dead. Don’t let that make you feel happier. Hard Brexiteers know that there only option now, is No Deal and that’s what they will try and pursue.

There is no deal until everything is settled. Right now, nothing is settled, not even what the UK want out of Brexit, never mind the EU position.

May might well have blown the only opportunity for a deal too, because of her failure over NI and the DUP. Where does she go from here? The idea that she will stand up to anyone, is ludicrous given her track record.

We might all wish we could John Lennon's song was apt when it comes to this Christmas and Brexit, it seems the war for our future post Brexit, it seems it is only just starting.

Sam Coates Times
@SamCoatesTimes
Exclusive: Times/ YouGov Poll
Voting intention has the Tories back ahead for the first time since the June election
CON 42%(+2),
LAB 41%(nc),
LDEM 7%(nc)
Changes on last week. Poll taken Sun/Mon

Good, I'm glad the brexit labour are slipping: one simple way to solve that one Jezza.^
And we're back!

I know it's a bit pointless, but do you ever wonder what position we'd be in now if there'd been a different style of opposition?
A forward-thinking, modernising, EU-approving, truly global, dynamic, youthful, visionary and unified party...
Since June so much more could have been achieved.

I know mother. So many open goals missed.

Are tories bad?

Little clue:
£5b tax breaks to banks voted through last night

while
128 000 children homeless
1 000 000 food parcels issued
120 000 'austerity' cuts deaths
134% rise in rough sleeping
8 000 000 living in poverty.

Does that make it clearer?

woman : I salute you!!
Thank you for your activism.

Re: The Conservative lead in the polls - How???!!??

I've been waiting for a hospital appointment to investigate a medical condition - which is leaving me unable to walk some days - since August.

I initially had an appointment for the end of February.

Now, that's a long wait. I'm in pain most days. Sometimes excruciating pain. I have medication for the pain but it barely takes the edge off.

The long wait is down to NHS cuts.

I've just had a letter saying my February appointment is cancelled and they will notify me as to the next available slot.

So, that's me and Lurking with direct experience of NHS cuts. And there is no way we are alone.

Then there are all the other cuts: school budgets; benefits. And the terrible rise in homelessness (I love C4 news, who actually covered this). And the apathy towards social mobility. And the contempt for democracy by leading Cabinet members such as David Davis. And the incompetence. And ... and ... and ...

And yet this shambolic government are ahead in opinion polls.

What, on earth, do they have to do before people wake up?

This popped up on Twitter this morning

....but the really poor and sick and vulnerable don't vote. So who cares?

Who was the Tory politician who stated that the only reason Food Bank usage has gone up is because more people know about them???!!!!

Woman - what tax breaks? can you link?

I think the point I was trying to make in previous posts is that it is not just the Tories who get it wrong.

As for food banks - they didn't exist in the past they are a new thing imported from the US so it's very difficult to compare the fact that there are more now than when? The didn't exist in the last labour government.

Those polls don't show any change: they were neck and neck last week and it is the same this week. Assuming that's a standard 1000 nat rep poll, you need a 3-4 point different for it to be significant. It might be a more exciting headline for the Time but it's inaccurate. It's paywalled so I can't read it in full but really, swings of 1-2% mean absolutely nothing.

What has seem to have changed is that May has widened the gap between her and Corbyn's approval, due to a small rise in approval for her and a corresponding drop for him. Pretty shit results after managing to get through to round 2.

Progress on Brexit looks like it’s given May a boost over Corbyn:
37% now think she’d be the best PM (up 3), ahead of Corbyn on 28%(down 2) and don’t know 35%(-1).
That’s a 9 pt lead, and it was a 4pt lead last week
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I've no other explanation for a govt showing such total incompetence and chaos not being consistently 20% behind in the polls than this

imo, Labour can't get a consistent poll lead because of Corbyn being leader (and maybe McDonnell lurking too)

He excites the core vote and those on the left who had given up on NuLabour for being too near the tories on austerity etc
but
he repels the centre vote and even some of the normally safe softer left vote, including many Jewish voters, or those with connections to the armed forces

It's probably not the the policies, but his past political baggage that repels up to say 10% of the population into supporting the Tories instead i]of Labour

David Allen Green @ davidallengreen
Brexiteers: "Sufficient Progress" document is not legally binding, not legally binding, you know it is not legally binding...

[EU27 produce new Guidelines requiring "Sufficient Progress" commitments to be translated into law.]

Brexiteers: Oh

Corbyn and Momentum are utterly toxic to a lot of people for a huge variety of reasons.

People who would vote Labour otherwise based on the exact same policies.

Labour are not getting just how toxic they are to this group of voters. Corbyn might get the youth vote but the balance of power he needs lies with older voters and middle aged voters.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-42315280?__twitter_impression=true
American think tank realise that Brexit is economic lunacy.

When Corbyn got in my hope was that he would change the policies and direction of labour and then hand over to someone else who would come in without the baggage. I still think this can happen and that Corbyn has done an amazing job of making these policies acceptable again. However, it was always a long game and finding the right time for a handover when we have had brexit, an election and then more brexit omnishambles is tricky. Plus time is needed for new talent to get established In the labour party, just handing over to someone from the established centre again is really not going to work.

[EU27 produce new Guidelines requiring "Sufficient Progress" commitments to be translated into law.]

Of course. If there's one Brexit certainty, that has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt, it is that the UK government lacks moral compass, integrity or basic negotiating competence and does not intrinsically give 2 shits about the human cost of this issue (GFA and EU citizens). Ok that's 4 certainties

EU27 would be negligent in accepting an "honourable committment" on anything from this government without legal ratification.

RedToothBrush The Rand report is very much a re-statement of elements of 'Project Fear'.

I like the fact they highlight the fact that the US-UK 'special relationship' was quite dependent on the UK being a member of the EU. I think that gets overlooked/brushed under the carpet when Brexiteers wibble on about a deal with the US.

It also emphasises the fact that a deal with the US is not on the table. I know BigChoc has emphasised how a deal with the US would have to include big changes to UK agriculture, however, I think the bigger fact is that a deal with the US is massively unlikely at the moment .

All the talk from businesses is that US deals are being knocked back at the moment unless it means jobs in the US. The current political climate in the US (Trump) is not deal-friendly.

I also think the letter Hammond has signed is interesting, RTB . Hammond, of course, is not entirely representative of the UK government stance, but I think we can see him speaking with the force of the Cabinet there. And it is, indeed, interesting.

woman 11017 (re. your upthread remark)
"Get out and do what you can folks in your locality. Anything. Stickers, market stalls, flags, wearing a badge."

Funnily enough, this is precisely what I did a few days ago at the annual drinks get-together of my tennis club (in a small village in a true-Blue Tory stronghold). When I was about to leave, I put on my coat with my 3million "I am not a bargaining chip" badge. Someone read it and said "Oh, you're a Remoaner, are you?". Others joined in and I left the venue with jeers ringing in my ears, as just about everyone there is a rabid Brexiteer.

Needless to say, I'm leaving the club (after over 20 years' membership) and will have to find a less benighted one instead.

On another tack, about claims we need to leave the EU in order to be able to do trade deals with non-EU nations: I've just come back from Germany and while doing a bit of clothes shopping (at cheapo Tschibo) I saw on almost every package the slogan "Cotton. Made in Africa". Funny how the Germans can do it while being in the EU, but we apparently can't.

So, the EU and David Davis agree that we are looking to have a Canada type agreement.

As we know, this will be carnage for the financial sector - which is such a huge part of our economy.

[https://www.ft.com/content/30a358ac-dda6-11e7-8f9f-de1c2175f5ce?utm_content=buffer6145c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer here]

The joke - if it can be called that - is that Davis and the crack team of UK negotiaters have to cunningly and brilliantly negotiate the EU into giving us a special Canada-style deal that protects the biggest asset in the UK economy.

It's not going to happen, is it?

The Conservatives are going to trash the economy. And they are still not tanking in the polls.

How?

Hasentstein I know. Interesting isn't it 'what lies beneath'.
Have you any #stopbrexit friends who could come along to socials with you? Being one, is sticky, having two of you is very different.

We talked about badges and flags yesterday ( why eu flag mafia do what they do) One person suggested: use EU flag as phone screen saver (when I can work out how to I will) Sew/Stick flag on rucksacks/ computer bags.

Semiotics of badges and fascism; Phd study, when this is over.

Brexiter snowflakes get very sad when they seen badges and flags.

Another thing I learnt yesterday:

Not all brexiters are sexist, but all sexists are brexiters

In 7 hours yesterday, every single foul mouthed brexiter, of which there were very very few, were angry white middle aged men. Some crumby teenage boys are groomed online by britainfirst and breitbart too to be part of the great trumpbrexit misogyny fest.

Great to see so many women honking and cheering us.
Great to see BME britons cheering us.
Great to see people in city funded expensive mercs cheering us.
London cabbies: who were very cross with non brexiters a year ago, but have seen what it's doing to business, honking and waving in support.
And white van drivers, lorries, buses, and grins from police too.

And on the middle aged/ to old vote for labour, red, that would have been us on the rally. lib dems/ remain labour to a person, and all in the 'our prime' .