Westministenders: Happy Xmas (War is Over) - if only

[RedToothBrush]

When is lying not lying. When you can get enough of your mates to agree it is not lying.

And so we have David Davis, who has made two statements to parliament which deliberately contradict each other and must constitute some sort of lie to parliament at some point however you cut it.

Will the Speaker risk the wrath of his party to uphold democratic values? We watch carefully.

Davis also reveals and exposes May too though. May one way or another is complicit in Davis’s lie, either through not doing her job in reading the reports or by protecting Davis when she knew the reports did not exist. This is gross misconduct in her inability to ensure her staff do their bloody jobs. All so she can keep her own job.

This is where whistleblowers in other institutions pop up.

It has also become apparent that May has not had THE conversation with the Cabinet over what shape Brexit should take. After 18months.
Why not? Is she incapable of consensus building or is she just incompetent?

And then we have the DUP seemingly not being properly being involved in the wording of the all important document.

Vote Leave’s Oliver Norgrove is perfectly right in saying that Hard Brexit is all but dead. Don’t let that make you feel happier. Hard Brexiteers know that there only option now, is No Deal and that’s what they will try and pursue.

There is no deal until everything is settled. Right now, nothing is settled, not even what the UK want out of Brexit, never mind the EU position.

May might well have blown the only opportunity for a deal too, because of her failure over NI and the DUP. Where does she go from here? The idea that she will stand up to anyone, is ludicrous given her track record.

We might all wish we could John Lennon's song was apt when it comes to this Christmas and Brexit, it seems the war for our future post Brexit, it seems it is only just starting.

London rally today.
We were filmed by Sky and BBC but seems a bit quiet on the old msm
Open topped bus toured London.
Rally outside Parliament
Tremendous support from the public. I've never seen the like: London cabbies; (our litmus test of brexit support), many honked and waved in support. Plus cars, buses, lorries, passengers and cyclists. Lotta support today.
Support didn't include John Redwood who scuttled past. I followed him and asked him to join the protest and vote for a final vote, he didn't appear to hear me.
Anyway.
People were there from Newcastle on Tyne, Lincolnshire, NI and America. Great stuff.
It's not on any mainstream media cos everybody's happy and brexit loves us.
We were glad we were still allowed to protest.
Can't imagine that will continue.

Good for you, woman ! 🤛🏼 < fist bump >

Saw you all on channel 4 news!

frumpety Oddly, part of a German documentary then sticks in my mind, on the unemployment in a British town, where they showed a youth club and said every person there was unemployed, except for the person running it.

Ever since the 1960s, Britain has had phases of being called the "sick man of Europe"
I remember (1970s) someone saying to Chancellor Helmut Schmidt that it was surprising that a developed country could get in so much economic trouble
He replied "England is no longer a developed country"

We may be entering another very bad phase

DD: "I don't have to be clever to do this job"

< um, it would really help if you weren't "thick as mince, lazy as a toad, vain as Narcissus">

m.youtube.com/watch?v=nEd6L0pWmkU

"The problem is that clarity is the one thing May dare not provide, because the minute anything is illuminated then it’s a target for someone.

Her best hope is generating a sort of permanently confused twilight in which nobody
(including her own cabinet, which still hadn’t formally agreed the precise form Brexit should take even as the EU agreed we had made significant progress towards it)
is entirely sure what’s going on, and therefore can’t be certain yet that they hate it."**

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/11/brexit-politics

Britain has always been 'too posh to wash', too snobby to do manual work, too prejudiced to have operational unions, too effete to stand up to inequity.

And thus we are where we is. One has to admire the foresight of those who made this coup happen. It was inevitable in so many ways.

Yes bigchoc

We may be entering another very bad phase

It started about 7 years ago, this is just the end bit of stage 2.

Well done woman!

Maybe the tide is beginning to turn?
That moment when the tide stops going out and is motionless before it starts going in again. People might stop, breathe and reflect?

Two thirds of young people want Brexit abandoned, new poll says.

And interestingly...

Elsewhere in the poll almost one in ten Leave voters (8%) said they also thought Britain should in fact remain in the EU.

Tories must know the demographics really aren't in their favour.

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/politics/opinion-polls/news/91369/two-thirds-young-people-want-brexit-abandoned-new-poll

Get out and do what you can folks in your locality. Anything. Stickers, market stalls, flags, wearing a badge. Contact local councillors too, all useful. Please. What's more useful is turning local leavers round.

Having said that, as red and others have said. It might have been over a year ago, who knows.

frumpety - Yes I do. I employed school leavers on YTS in my manager role for a national retailer. I was a student when we had power cuts and 3 day weeks and had a mortgage for years in double figures - I remember 15%!!
I'm well aware that this was under the Tories.
I must say though that I think living through all that has made me much more relaxed about what is happening now.

My impression is that we have heard a little less of 'the will of the people' recently. To be replaced by the will of Johnson and Gove. I could however see Johnson do a complete about turn, if he thought it was to his advantage.

I must say though that I think living through all that has made me much more relaxed about what is happening now.

I can't say that it's made me more relaxed. It was pretty shtty then for a lot of people, and it's a different sort of sht now, but that doesn't make it better in my book.

Faisal Islam @ FaisalIslam
Five European Finance ministers incl @PhilipHammondUK French, Germans sign joint letter/ warning to US Treasury on Trump “America First” Tax cuts “contravening US double taxation treaties” and “having major distortive impact on international trade”
Joining in a potential tax trade war on Europe’s side against the US doesn’t look like the actions of a nation close to signing an extensive trade deal with the US
Our understanding that this letter was approved by both Number 10 and FCO ... interesting times...

This IS interesting and perhaps more significant than you think. The government are worried.

Remember there is also a huge summit this week about the WTO.

I said after Trump's Election that we could well end up in a situation where we are forced to choose between the US and the EU and something could well happen to push us towards the EU because Trump can't be trusted and isn't remotely bothered about our interests.

Keep your eyes out for more stuff like this. I think we will see it become more important yet.

"Strange also that some people now think the 3-day week, rolling power cuts across the country etc in the 1970s were under Labour !
(no, they were under a Tory govt)"

It's because it suits the Tory agenda to re-write the 70s as a left wing disaster governed by Labour.

Who are these people who think the 70s was Labour? Haven't seen any.

To be fair though Labour was in power from 1974 to 1979 - When I was at uni. and there were loads of power cuts. Think there were quite a few other strikes then too. Was that when we had the bin men strike - seem to remember months of waste piled up in Leicester square!

I've corrected posters on other threads who were including the 3-day week under a list of "back to the 70s with Labour"

Strikes ? Well many countries have those.
However, even for the 70s, a 3-day week was exceptional, no longer a developed country - it would be an even worse national humiliation now the world has moved on 40+ years

Many low income Leavers voted because they just wanted to stop all the years of austerity, not have even worse years
So, a govt that blunders into a repeat would expect to be out of office for a very long time

Hence the civil war between Tories who want to stay in power and those who put ideology first.

If Brexit is hard and without a transition period, then business and especially exports would be badly hit.
However, the UK still has to import much of its food, as well as energy, vital components, raw materials etc,
all of which have to be paid for, often in dollars or euros
and likely coming in through log-jammed ports

So, the govt would first resort to ration books (well, first to denying there is a problem)
then they might have to call on the IMF - who would then take back control.

People might just take it in silent misery.
Or explode into anger and civil unrest.

Peregrina
But how can we have full regulatory autonomy whilst staying aligned with the EU, because of the GFA?

This can't be done. It can only be one or the other. That is why Gove et al are in earnest about walking away from the handshake, and why Sylvia Hermon's amendment should have been voted on (and passed).

It is all still up for grabs.

Finally, an impact assessment.

Nearly all the possible trading relationships between Britain and the European Union following Brexit would be less favourable than staying in the European Union, according to an influential US think tank. The Rand Corporation study said the worst option would be a "no deal". That would leave the UK economy 4.9% poorer by 2029.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42315280

www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2200.html

I said after Trump's Election that we could well end up in a situation where we are forced to choose between the US and the EU and something could well happen to push us towards the EU because Trump can't be trusted and isn't remotely bothered about our interests.

During the ref a very non political df of mine said he thought it was the greatest shame our vote was before US's, saying that Trump was a gamechanger and we'd need the EU far more if he got in. It stuck with me.

Corcory , if felt like in previous posts that you were insinuating that if bad things happened under Labour , it was clearly as a result of their policies and therefore their fault , eg world wide banking crisis . Yet if anything bad happened under the Conservatives , it was as a result of wider issues/agencies that were outside their control . To me , all Governments are responsible during their time in power , regardless of their persuasion . They may not be responsible for events occurring , but they are responsible for how they react and it should always be for the greater good of the citizens of the country .

Sorry for picking on you though , there does feel to be a general narrative running at the moment , which is allowing the current Government to absolve its responsibility and misuse its power to avoid proper debate on the most serious event and surrounding issues that are facing this country and its citizens .

if bad things happened under Labour , it was clearly as a result of their policies and therefore their fault , eg world wide banking crisis . Yet if anything bad happened under the Conservatives , it was as a result of wider issues/agencies that were outside their control .
This is largely typical Tory thinking, divine right to govern etc etc
The last election was very showing for that sort of thinking - Labour with their costed plan could not be trsuted with the economy, but the Tories can always be trusted despite having no financial plan at all.

This is not the tory party anymore. It's a different beast. The brexodus is turning into a coup diaspora. EU and UK citizens getting the f* out.