Westministenders: Happy Xmas (War is Over) - if only

[RedToothBrush]

When is lying not lying. When you can get enough of your mates to agree it is not lying.

And so we have David Davis, who has made two statements to parliament which deliberately contradict each other and must constitute some sort of lie to parliament at some point however you cut it.

Will the Speaker risk the wrath of his party to uphold democratic values? We watch carefully.

Davis also reveals and exposes May too though. May one way or another is complicit in Davis’s lie, either through not doing her job in reading the reports or by protecting Davis when she knew the reports did not exist. This is gross misconduct in her inability to ensure her staff do their bloody jobs. All so she can keep her own job.

This is where whistleblowers in other institutions pop up.

It has also become apparent that May has not had THE conversation with the Cabinet over what shape Brexit should take. After 18months.
Why not? Is she incapable of consensus building or is she just incompetent?

And then we have the DUP seemingly not being properly being involved in the wording of the all important document.

Vote Leave’s Oliver Norgrove is perfectly right in saying that Hard Brexit is all but dead. Don’t let that make you feel happier. Hard Brexiteers know that there only option now, is No Deal and that’s what they will try and pursue.

There is no deal until everything is settled. Right now, nothing is settled, not even what the UK want out of Brexit, never mind the EU position.

May might well have blown the only opportunity for a deal too, because of her failure over NI and the DUP. Where does she go from here? The idea that she will stand up to anyone, is ludicrous given her track record.

We might all wish we could John Lennon's song was apt when it comes to this Christmas and Brexit, it seems the war for our future post Brexit, it seems it is only just starting.

Big choc - I wouldn't think the UK will agree to importing US hormone-ridden Beef in the first place.

Minford & co, along with many of the Tory right wish to do so.

The USA have said that without agriculture & farming, there will be no trade deal with the UK

If the UK either gives up on a trade deal with the US, or accepts its lower standard meat imports - which will inevitably mean rock hard borders and checks, to try to make sure none gets into the EU food chain.

This is thought to be why there is a discrepancy with health surveys on eating meat when those surveys are carried out in the US compared to the EU
It is why US low carbers keep stressing "grass-fed beef" which is the norm in the UK / EU, but is a premium food in the US

On its own, the Uk has far less clout than as part of the #1 size trade bloc in the world
Especially if every other country knows the Uk is starting from year Zero, with no FTAs, no MRAs etc
i.e. desperate
Completely different from 45 or so years ago, before joining the then EEC, when the UK did have lots of its own trade deals

The EU may lose its UK trade, but its trade with the rest of the world is unaffected
The Uk loses all its trade agreements with every country in the world

All their mass-produced beef and chicken do not fulfill current EU / UK standards

US mass-produced meat and meat products generally don't satisfy EU rules / current Uk rules
(and it is the mass-produced the US wants included in a trade deal - the grass-fed is available now in the EU)

I wouldn't think the UK will agree to importing US hormone-ridden Beef in the first place.

I would not like to bet on this. I would hope consumer pressure would stop it, although maybe not straight away. As with the BSE crisis - it was bubbling under and then suddenly, wham, meat sales collapsed.

Successive Uk govts in the 1960s and early 1970s became desperate to join the EEC, precisely because they found that the Uk on its own could no longer get the trade terms it wanted
Why does anyone think the Uk can do better now, after Year Zero ?

World trade has become far more dependent on trade blocs than 45 years ago
And far more regulated - many EU regs are based on those from the UN and other international bodies, which the UK cannot avoid after Brexit
Others are higher EU standards, especially for safety in food products, electrical goods, toys etc, clearer labelling of contents and origin for the consumer - which many US multinationals hate.

UK govts can ignore the Uk public on technical mattes, confident that the voters will believe outright lies from Mogg & co.
Like they believe "every other country in the world trades under WTO rules with the EU"
Just blame it on "Remoaning"

Or the govt hides it under fake news / royal weddings & births / other sleb news / World Cup etc

Most voters will have forgotten most such controversy by the GE, even if they were unsure at the time.

I wouldn't think the UK will agree to importing US hormone-ridden Beef in the first place

Is that a joke?

Tories are arguably liable for the incineration of 80 poor people many of whom are still homeless; thousands of suicides due to DWP thuggery; at least a death a month in detention centres; illegal detention and deportation of british citizens; british people freezing to death on our streets right now; over 100000 homeless children; and the confiscation of our EU right to travel freely and for our kids to study, work and love in the EU; contemptible lying duplicity and corruption in our precious legislature. Enabling a violent racist press. And that's just the stuff we know about.

This year.

Yeah, I'm sure they wouldn't poison us with dodgy meat.

Have I mentioned how much I love Seb Dance this month?

Canada deal = £36bn less for NHS; doesn’t cover services.

Canada + = Customs Union. Still no services.

Canada + + = Customs Union and Single Market. No say over rules.

^Canada + + + = EU membership. t.co/ZeI5i6DNpb^

Sorry, that link is to the Faisal Islam tweet he was responding too, missed it was there

They might not poison MNers - who shop in Waitrose and can be choosy about the food they buy, but there will be thousands who can only afford the cheap chlorinated beef, which probably after a time won't even be all that cheap.

I have seen Leavers whining about EUs standards of animal husbandry not being as good as our own, but funnily enough, American ones are fine, or don't cause comment.

On the other hand, another part of me feels that the public did turn against battery farmed hens, so perhaps all is not yet lost.

Flood the Uk market with cheap low quality food
UK farmers can't afford to continue, so sell up - some to giant US agribusinesses

Food remains low quality, but soon is no longer low-priced
but people forget after a few years how things used to be

Food remains low quality, but soon is no longer low-priced

My fear too.

Big choc - I wouldn't think the UK will agree to importing US hormone-ridden Beef in the first place.

The UK will have to do a trade deal with the US. Trump now holds all the cards and it will all be on Trump's terms

(Not that the Tories would have cared either way.....)

No, the Tories and Leavers go on and on and on about Sovereignty, but when it comes to kow-towing to the Americans, it's no problem whatever.

Well today's big development is the divergence of Labour and the Tories.

It looks like it's going to shape up that Labour policy is Norway whilst the Tory position will shape up to be Canada or No Deal.

I might be wrong but keep an eye on it.

It will put clear water between the two for the first-time on Brexit.

"It is why US low carbers keep stressing "grass-fed beef" which is the norm in the UK / EU, but is a premium food in the US"

I don't think I can believe that.
Local farm offers tours for kids at preschool (DS went to the preschool).
On the tour, they mentioned that they feed the beef cows mostly grain, because consumers prefer white marbled meat. Grass-fed means yellow fat in the meat.
I didn't like how the cattle were housed, btw, under cover on hay but no sun or fresh grass.

When is the last time you saw any beef in a shop that was even slightly yellow fat? All the beef chunks I see are very white fat.

From that, I conclude that most cows (destined to be beef in Britain) are fed on grain overwhelmingly, at least for a long period before slaughter. Also, it's why most dairy products are decidedly white in colour, even modern butter is barely yellow colour. Dairy cows also get a lot less grass than they used to.

Glad to be corrected.

"The UK will have to do a trade deal with the US. "

This is another one I don't much believe... b/c I don't think Trump can make trade deals at all. There are great articles about how screwed up his proposals are for renegotiating NAFTA. And about how the USA is being seen as a volatile unreliable deal maker, no long term arrangements can be trusted. On NAFTA, Mexico & Canada are just pissing around waiting for Trump to go. After that, the political establishment in USA will be in chaos for a long spell, still. The USA is going to flounder making deals with anyone for a while to come.

Lisa o'carroll
@lisaocarroll
BREAKING Ireland has hit back at David Davis remarks saying Friday deal merely a statement of intent. Statement: “Both Ireland and the EU will be holding the UK to the Phase 1 agreement”. Points out UK has signed up to par 46 which binds them to the deal.

Peregrina did the public turn against battery hens? Or just a section of it? And how much are recent improvements due to EU rules? Which we may no longer be following. Do the customers of the ubiquitous chicken shops wonder where the meat comes from and what's added to it?

I am not optimstic about this.

What I most noticed about Andrew Marr is that he immediately shut down Keir Starmer when he mentioned the nearly 4,000 people murdered wrt NI. The peace element importance of the GFA. I think Starmer mentioned 'Bear in mind these Dead' by Susan McKay. Could be wrong as Marr was in like lightning to shut him down. Must have got an urgent instruction through his earpiece. And all the bllcks DD was allowed to lie for damage limitation drone on about without interruption.

He started going on about carrots. They want to keep it at carrots and milk. The EU will give them that. It is certainly far from 'deep and meaningful'. Low value overall and no services. Remind me again about how much the UK depends on services. There are insurance companies who now operate on an all Ireland basis. What's to do?
There was a hiatus in the Canada deal while the human rights element was being mulled over. Took a few years overall.

DD said there would be a trade deal with EU in the next 8 months. We cannot still at the A,B,C of how they are only leaving in 2019 and any trade deal comes after that. When they are a 3rd country.

There is a crisis in the UK, I think. Political, economic and intellectual. No intellectual rigour is being brought to the Brexit debate. Instead of having people on who 'know their onions', they go out onto the street to have a vox pop. Same with studio. At least Shipman had some clue. But what did Helen Lewis and Toby Young into NI or trade deals? Or EU law or relationships with 3rd countries? And Brokenshire about NI? He may be the gov't's appointed NI Secretary, but he has nothing much to offer. Remember the usual calibre of these secretaries. Theresa Villiers anyone?

Varadkar is coming in for a bit of flack. He achieved what he set out to do. If there is any trade deal, alignment must be adhered to and the protection of the GFA. The EU will have it as one of their parameters. Same for the money and rights. Yes, the details have to be thrashed out, but the principle has to be adhered to.

The guys saying they can renege on it are telling the whole world exactly who they are and what the UK they run is capable of. They think they are pushing their weight around, but they are talking in a vacuum. They could always have walked away without a deal, but will have to if they don't adhere to the three points.

Brexit as laughing stock.

Snowflakes.

6Jacob Rees-Mogg MP said not aligning itself with EU regulatory standards should be an "indelible red line".6

www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2017/1209/926243-brexit-connelly-part2/

Woman - you are the joke!

Where do you get the idea that it's the Tories that are responsible for all the ills that have befallen the poor of the UK - of course there were no poor people before 2010 - everyone lived happily ever after - not.

BREAKING Ireland has hit back at David Davis remarks saying Friday deal merely a statement of intent. Statement: “Both Ireland and the EU will be holding the UK to the Phase 1 agreement”. Points out UK has signed up to par 46 which binds them to the deal.

How can Davis expect to be taken seriously by countries he plans to do trade deals with? This kind of slithery behaviour will surely mark him out as someone who reneges on a deal, someone who can't be trusted. It's as though he's unaware that the rest of the world consume British news and will see he's a total amateur who can't be trusted.

Bizarre.