Westministenders: Happy Xmas (War is Over) - if only

[RedToothBrush]

When is lying not lying. When you can get enough of your mates to agree it is not lying.

And so we have David Davis, who has made two statements to parliament which deliberately contradict each other and must constitute some sort of lie to parliament at some point however you cut it.

Will the Speaker risk the wrath of his party to uphold democratic values? We watch carefully.

Davis also reveals and exposes May too though. May one way or another is complicit in Davis’s lie, either through not doing her job in reading the reports or by protecting Davis when she knew the reports did not exist. This is gross misconduct in her inability to ensure her staff do their bloody jobs. All so she can keep her own job.

This is where whistleblowers in other institutions pop up.

It has also become apparent that May has not had THE conversation with the Cabinet over what shape Brexit should take. After 18months.
Why not? Is she incapable of consensus building or is she just incompetent?

And then we have the DUP seemingly not being properly being involved in the wording of the all important document.

Vote Leave’s Oliver Norgrove is perfectly right in saying that Hard Brexit is all but dead. Don’t let that make you feel happier. Hard Brexiteers know that there only option now, is No Deal and that’s what they will try and pursue.

There is no deal until everything is settled. Right now, nothing is settled, not even what the UK want out of Brexit, never mind the EU position.

May might well have blown the only opportunity for a deal too, because of her failure over NI and the DUP. Where does she go from here? The idea that she will stand up to anyone, is ludicrous given her track record.

We might all wish we could John Lennon's song was apt when it comes to this Christmas and Brexit, it seems the war for our future post Brexit, it seems it is only just starting.

Mmm. I think I've noticed a real increase in homeless people since austerity came in. I've been talking to my daughter about it. It's visibly real - and absolutely, unarguably increased since the ideology of austerity was introduced.

Likewise, the changes to disability benefit have had a marked (and terrible) effect.

It looks and feels qualitatively and quantitively different. Poverty is extremely visible here in London, in a way it wasn't only 10 years ago.

However. This is a thread primarily about Brexit. So I guess we need to link the effects of Osborne's austerity project back to the drivers for the Leave vote - and look at how that is all going to pan out in relation to Brexit.

Back on the subject of Brexit - I, too, think that a deal - any deal - with the US is unlikely any time soon.

I also absolutely agree with your analysis of the political crisis, BigChoc .

I really need to apply for an Irish passport. My children are badgering me about it.

I know. I can't think that it helps the UK image in the world. What an utter bellend.

Coming hot on the heels of Gove's article where he basically repudiated the phase 1 agreement, I would be concerned if I were Leo Varadkar that the agreement was not worth the paper it was printed on (assuming it was printed and not just a shake on it proposition). I would say there are serious rumblings in Dublin about the very different interpretations of the agreement now emerging, with the possibility of an Irish GE in the coming year if British pols keep on shooting their mouths off in this fashion.

I'm sure you don't mean to be Corcory but that was a tiny bit rude.
As well as wrong, but I can't be bothered to discuss with rudeys.

Lots of dropping of brexit handbags today I've noticed.

Faisal Islam‏Verified account @faisalislam
Might just be worth bearing in mind that sufficient progress hasn’t actually been formally signed off by the EU Summit yet - might be a limit to extent to which UK Gov wants to publicly reinterpret deal before weekend

Whoops.

Dh and I were only remarking just how bad homelessness has got over the last few years, both at home and inner London. Local groups providing food for them have been asked to stop as it encourages them apparently

I am quite sure that Fox will rush to do a deal with Trump, where wiser representatives of other countries like Canada, wait it out. The Brexiters have something to prove.

As for cattle - we see lots of them in the fields round here. Eventually dairy cattle go for meat, don't they?

just how bad homelessness has got over the last few years
^Number of rough sleepers in England rises for sixth successive year
Latest official figures show an estimated 4,134 people were forced to sleep outside in 2016, up 16% on the previous year^
www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/25/number-of-rough-sleepers-in-england-rises-for-sixth-successive-year
In fact as it is so bitter tonight there will be more corpse collectors out in the morning.
List of emergency shelters in London tonight.
www.homelesslink.org.uk/connect/blogs/2017/nov/06/london-winter-shelters-2017-18-list-published
worth sharing on SM.

Local groups providing food for them have been asked to stop as it encourages them apparently

Homelessness on the up in Oxford also. Ten years ago, it wasn't like this. Remember the cardboard cities of the Thatcher and Major years also?

I think anyone who spends any time in large cities will have noticed how quickly rough sleeping dropped when Labour got in in 97 and how quickly it rose again once the coalition took over in 2010.

iijkk There is a considerable difference on findings from US and European scientific studies on eating red meat

In the US, Dr Walter Willett (world-renowned expert, Harvard University’s School of Public Health who has examined many large scale studies there:

‘In our studies we’ve shown that those who consumed higher amounts of red meat had a higher risk of total mortality, cardiovascular mortality and cancer mortality,’
According to Willett, eating 85 g daily increases your risk of premature death by 13%

In contrast, e.g. a European study of 500,00 people in 10 European countries for 12 years found eating 150g meat daily had no detrimental effect

• "Meat consumption and mortality", Rohrmann et al, BMC Medicine, 2013

It is noticeable that US low carb gurus keep stressing "grass-fed, not grain-fed" beef, whereas experienced UK low-carbers emphasise that negative findings from US studies have not been found in European studies

In the EEA, farmers are not allowed to routinely feed animals with antibiotics and growth promoters.
In the US, they are.
They also add a hormone that dissolves muscle while the animal is still alive,
to make the meat tender for consumers.

If you live rurally, in the Uk countryside as I used to, for many years, you see the cattle outside grazing for most of their lives until slaughter
The farmers I knew relied entirely on grass except in winter - there are some larger Uk farms now, owned by agribusiness, where US practices like corn may have sneaked in - but still no hormones allowed

There are huge industrial cattle factories e.g. Texas, where cattle are routinely fed corn, antibiotics, growth promoters - plus green dye to make it look palatable (to the farmer ?)

It seems likely that the lower welfare standards for animals result in less healthy meat for consumers

Do we generally eat less meat than the Americans? My guess would be that we did, and less beef as a proportion of the total.

I said something similar to dh notDavid, it reminded me of when I was younger coming into London but it's been a long time since I've seen such levels. Dh doesn't remember it ever being this bad round our way though.

Cardboard city meets its Waterloo

As you can see, this coincided with the Tory years and came to an end within one year of Labour getting in. Now I was never a fan of Blair, and won't forgive him for Iraq, but he did some things right.

It's the gift that keeps on giving: Dump the DUP xmas song.
www.joe.ie/music/irish-brexit-song-youll-need-hear-christmas-609005

I can remember back to the1960s wrt the NHS and
particularly how the NHS was really run down through the 1980s and 1990s,
then waiting lists etc considerably improved under Blair - but have gone up since 2010

New Labour invested huge amounts of money at the NHS - imo sometimes without getting sufficiently good value, e.g. GPs pay & hours
However, the end result was a rescued NHS after it had been starved of resources for 15 years

peregrina The studies looked at the amounts of red meat and worked out the risks for 85 g, 150g etc
So results were not distorted by countries eating more red meat, or less

The wealthy in the US of course eat only grass-fed beef
In the UK, we can be sure Moggy, Gove, May, the HoC restaurants would never have chlorine chicken or hormone-ridden beef

Massive investment in education under labour. Pay rises and funding for one on one teaching, excellent stuff.

He's a bit shouty, but no one else is, so he might as well.

@chunkymark
128,000 children Homeless this Christmas, council austerity cuts hit Children Services, it’s a Crisis with people sleeping out in freezing cold Theresa May’s homeless epidemic Tory Santas trickle-down-fcknomics gives Banks a £5Billion Christmas present
twitter.com/chunkymark/status/939935010265665536

Don't know if it's true but there's a post listing food stolen from someone's house during a burglary. Computers etc untouched. Poster said they were welcome to the food. Others said they had heard of break ins for food only.

The talking down what was agreed is precisely why the EU won't accept a UK border on trust / faith / hope / magic / not yet existing IT systems.
They'll demand everything nailed down, in writing, or no trade deal.
That's not being "bureaucrats". It's how you treat any slippery customers

EU negotiators and EU heads of govt or their staff) can all read these promises by Tory pols that the agreement was meaningless, that the govt don't have to do what they agreed to.

In business, would you trust anyone who kept telling their mates not to worry, that they wouldn't do as they promised you ?

Woman - you said that what I said was a joke!

I found what you suggested about the Tories extremely inflammatory.

I apologise if I offended you but you certainly did me.

I certainly don't dispute the suggestion that there are more homeless people now than there were.

To suggest that it was only because of tory policy that this has happened is a bit disingenuous.

The Blair/Brown government certainly increased benefits and spending in the public sector. They borrowed and borrowed to do it and we are paying the price as well as sorting out the banking mess.

It's very amusing when Tories come out as snowflakes
Shall we get some teeny tiny violins?

To suggest that it was only because of tory policy that this has happened is a bit disingenuous.

Yet we had a homeless problem with the Thatcher/Major Governments, and we have one now. So why is it?

It's not actually wrong to borrow - it's how the money is invested which counts. Personally I find money spent on health and education a good investment. The Tories have no problem finding money for their wealthy friends, but they have yet to persuade me of the trickle down effect - it's much more like the more money the greedy so and so's have, the more they want.

To suggest that it was only because of tory policy that this has happened is a bit disingenuous.
Why blame the people who could have done something to change it when you can blame the EU etc etc