Westministenders: Happy Xmas (War is Over) - if only

[RedToothBrush]

When is lying not lying. When you can get enough of your mates to agree it is not lying.

And so we have David Davis, who has made two statements to parliament which deliberately contradict each other and must constitute some sort of lie to parliament at some point however you cut it.

Will the Speaker risk the wrath of his party to uphold democratic values? We watch carefully.

Davis also reveals and exposes May too though. May one way or another is complicit in Davis’s lie, either through not doing her job in reading the reports or by protecting Davis when she knew the reports did not exist. This is gross misconduct in her inability to ensure her staff do their bloody jobs. All so she can keep her own job.

This is where whistleblowers in other institutions pop up.

It has also become apparent that May has not had THE conversation with the Cabinet over what shape Brexit should take. After 18months.
Why not? Is she incapable of consensus building or is she just incompetent?

And then we have the DUP seemingly not being properly being involved in the wording of the all important document.

Vote Leave’s Oliver Norgrove is perfectly right in saying that Hard Brexit is all but dead. Don’t let that make you feel happier. Hard Brexiteers know that there only option now, is No Deal and that’s what they will try and pursue.

There is no deal until everything is settled. Right now, nothing is settled, not even what the UK want out of Brexit, never mind the EU position.

May might well have blown the only opportunity for a deal too, because of her failure over NI and the DUP. Where does she go from here? The idea that she will stand up to anyone, is ludicrous given her track record.

We might all wish we could John Lennon's song was apt when it comes to this Christmas and Brexit, it seems the war for our future post Brexit, it seems it is only just starting.

I know logic isn’t a strong point of the frothers, separate to the leavers as detailed by lurking, but why are they upset at not being in the jurisdiction on the ecj?

I haven't seen an answer to Ireland not wanting a load of fervent Unionists in the Dáil

A long time ago, before the GFA was even a twinkle in David Trimble or John Hume's eyes, I was at a debate where the possibility of a federal 4 province Ireland was mooted. I have to say that I think it may be a sound idea if reunification ever did happen as it could be a workable solution to the issue of trying avoid marginalizing the unionists.

No they are upset that the ECJ will cover EU citizens living here. They think that if an EU citizen commits a crime like burglary or assault they will be tried by the ECJ rather than the British courts.

Which leads me to believe that when they say it's not a proper brexit if.... they are just parroting Boris, Farage, JRM and don't actually know what they are talking about. Which will come as a surprise to no one on this thread.

Can someone smarter than me please explain why Brois (I think) is now saying the final deal must give us control over our money? Is this that fucking bus all over again? Because last I looked we are not in the Eurozone (exemption number 26377 previously obtained from our Evil Overlords in the EU)

Thanks hollie, it seemed too barmy even given previous barminess but that’s makes more sense. Not much sense, but more than I’d originally thought! How does that square with this, if what’s below is accurate?

Alex Andreou
@sturdyAlex
Defending the ECJ's continued jurisdiction, @DominicRaab tours news studios, saying:

"No it doesn't mean we'll be ruled by the ECJ. Our courts will make the decisions, but will have the option to refer a question of interpretation to the ECJ."

Which is exactly what happens now.

George is really enjoying this

George Osborne
@George_Osborne
Meanwhile ...

FT Economics
@fteconomics
EU and Japan finalise deal for trade zone covering 30% of global GDP

That's alright I probably didn't explain it very well. It just shows they have no idea what the ECJ is for, whilst raging against it.

The best comments I've seen are the "I'll never vote Tory again, I'm voting UKIP next time". The irony just won't quit.

Is it so terrible to have a love/hate thing going on for George Osborne? Or should I give myself a good talking to?

Note how the EU are so organized they can run several negotiations at once, while we can barely manage one.

You're not missing anything, Missmoon.

No trade deals with the rest of the world will be possible if they threaten the Agreement.

I fear that this is a massive exercise in kicking the can down the road. The ideologues can't be satisfied, and NI and Ireland will get kicked in the teeth.

All hell will break loose within the next few years as the irreconcilable elements of the fudge run smack into each other.

I wish Varadkar had used the veto, though Ireland stands to lose in the case of the hard Brexit that would follow. Since he didn't use it, I hope Ireland's position can be influential in the next round and that the GFA will be front and centre.

I get the impression that most nationalists in Ireland both north and south are just waiting for the day when demographics will ensure a vote on reunification. Maybe even Unionist remainers would be tempted to vote in favour, depending on how NI agriculture fares in the next few years.

Dominic Raab on the Channel 4 news. What a dimwitted Tory tit he is. Came out of that interview looking like an utter fool.

So that's nice!

It's not just being organised;
it's also pooling resources of 27 countries to hire specialist trade negotiators and their extensive support staff

A prosperous large trade bloc can successfully perform parallel negotiations with different countries

Even 80 years ago, the UK was still a superpower with the resources of many experts to easily manage that too.

Now: a broken, has-been country that has slashed its civil service for decades, that now demonises its remaining experts whenever they dare speak the truth .... and is desperate for any trade deal whatsoever with anyone .... so will be taken to the cleaners.

The UK's downward slide has already lasted several decades and will continue until both the ruling class and the general public stop dreaming of past grandeur and get realistic about the limits of British power now, not when we ruled half the world.

The arrogant superiority has lasted far too many decades after the power has gone

The RoI can use its veto anytime, certainly if the UK wants a trade deal
Remember even Belgium's regional assembly of Walloon successfully vetoed a trade deal

Also, the EU Parliament has said it will veto any A50 exit deal that does not fulfill the 3 Phase 1 prerequisites:
citizens' rights, Ni border, exit bill

The sheer size of the EU means that it can easily afford to financially support RoI infrastructure in transport to the EU mainland,, communications, power etc to minimise Brexit fallout for the RoI.

The EU would be happy with a CETA type deal, because that just covers trade, for which they have a large surplus with the uk`
That gives them the opportunity to grab lucrative chunks of the services market

Of course, London will retain a lot of business - almost all of the USA business I expect
However, other financial centres in the EU are already gaining - e.g. Frankfurt is booming, part of which is business gained from London already.
Paris and Dublin should share in some of the spoils too
Services are far more than just the much publicised financial services

The E27 are gaining the key agencies that the UK lost, e.g. banking and drugs; also many science projects will be lost to the E27 countries over the next 2-3 years

Dexeu tonight...

The TM attacks are providing succour for the JRM machine, which I presume is busy bile churning right now.

MPs, all MPs look to me like hostages and or clowns on TV interviews now, with the media being so obviously manipulated, I presume they are too.

The conspiracists theorists say the tipping point was ages ago.

I feel like running away to any country which isn't this one and hiding on a beach for a few years until this blows over, passport or not.

The idea of being trapped in britain is too gruesome a prospect at the best of times, but now...................

That article I posted way back about Armenia was interesting.
The EU will not take fascist states.

Looking at you Britain.

@PeterKGeoghegan
Was just wondering about this w/an Irish journalist back home. Assume editors think not important/surprising for audiences. Which is even worse than a conspiracy

@acgrayling
Gina Miller is right: ‘There is something very odd going on in our media – Davies and Hammonds explosive admissions yesterday should have been front page headlines and top of the hour through-out the day’ -

I wonder what they'll do about Poland woman

Christian Davies
@crsdavies
The Polish parliament has just passed two bills to give the ruling party control over judicial appointments and the supreme court. The government will also have power to reopen any court case from last 20 years. There was no consultation either with legal experts or the public.

Polish parliament, defying EU, approves judiciary overhaul

www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-judiciary-supremecourt/polish-parliament-defying-eu-approves-judiciary-overhaul-idUSKBN1E21PR

WARSAW (Reuters) - Polish lawmakers approved an overhaul of the judiciary on Friday, giving parliament de facto control over the selection of judges in defiance of the European Union.

The legislation, if agreed by the Senate and President Andrzej Duda, will heighten tensions with the EU which has threatened legal action over proposed reform that it says will subvert the rule of law.

The eurosceptic Law and Justice (PiS) party, which holds a majority in parliament, argues the judiciary needs to be changed to repair a corrupt system and make courts more efficient. The EU says giving politicians a say in appointing judges will threaten the impartiality of the courts.

[...]A panel of constitutional law experts of the Council of Europe human rights body said on Friday the proposed reforms imperiled all parts of the judiciary and would “lead to a far reaching politicization of this body”.

Under the legislation, heavily supported by PiS lawmakers, parliament would have a virtual free hand in choosing members of the National Judiciary Council (KRS), a powerful body that decides judicial appointments and promotions which was a right earlier reserved chiefly for the judges themselves.

A second bill, also approved, envisages lowering the mandatory retirement age for Supreme Court judges to 65 years from 70, which would force a significant part of them to leave.

I know, pain . Stick together and slap them down?
I see google is now the fascist(and misogynistic) search engine of choice, extreme right nasty pops up when you google Poland.
Their fascisty march was only 60 000.
Teeny compared to our remain and women's marches.

Is Poland trying to push out of the EU as well? I didn't think it was.

I remember when Cameron, shortly after arriving in No 10, changed the UK Conservative MEPs alignment in the EU parliament from the centre to the authoritarian right along with I think most Hungarian representatives, were Poland MEPs in that grouping too?. It was a very uneasy moment.

There's always been fascist toe rags in Poland, NI, England and everywhere, they didn't used to have entire digital and ms press networks stuffing them down everyone's throats.
That they've been held off for so long as a testament to the moderate majority across the 27-28? hoping!

Hungary is being held up as inspiration by some Republican politicians:

Steve King
@SteveKingIA
Diversity is not our strength. Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orban, “Mixing cultures will not lead to a higher quality of life but a lower one.”

voiceofeurope.com/2017/12/hungarys-pm-mixing-cultures-will-not-lead-to-a-higher-quality-of-life-but-to-a-lower-one/

Robert Peston‏*@Peston*

This from @michaelgove seems surprisingly close to him saying if voters decide Brexit is a mistake, they can and should change their minds

Sorry how does stuff about Ukraine translate into Gove suggesting that if voters think Brexit is a mistake, they can change their minds?

I don't know how well Gove's antenna are tuned. Is he sensing a change in public mood and is positioning himself, for May's downfall?

I think that Manafort thing must have been posted by mistake?

It was a non sequitur, sorry! Not related at all

Robert Peston‏*@Peston*
In case anyone thinks @michaelgove off message in his @Telegraph article saying voters can reject May’s future Brexit settlement with EU if they don’t like it, his colleagues say article was approved by Downing Street

I think this is the piece that goes with the Peston tweet Peregrina
They're prisoners of 'the people'. Dinnae fuck wi' fascism as my auld grannie didn't used to say.