Can anyone defend today's shambolic events?

[Bearbehind]

So it seems TM decided to ignore the fact the DUP has said all along they wouldn't support different rules for NI and tell the EU that that was how we are planning to resolve the border issue.

Then Arlene points out that they weren't bluffing and will not support it so TM has to back track.

It's a fucking joke.

TM and her government continue to think everyone else will just back down if they plough on with their arrogant plans.

When are they going to get real?

Seriously, is there any defence for this staggering display of incomptentence?

Who invoked A50 without doing any preparatory work? Couldn't TM read and see that there was a time limit involved? It was an agreement which as members of the EU we signed up to, and indeed the author was British. I know it's fashionable with Leavers to pretend that for 43 years we have been sitting on the sidelines and just having to take what the rest of the EU dished out, but it's only true in so far as our Govt's haven't been bothered to take part.

Exactly Pere

Purits do you understand that the two year rule only kicked in once artlcle 50 was triggered?

If TM has taken her time, planned, and got a concensus from Parliament about leaving, BEFORE triggering Articke 50, she wouldn’t be having these issues now.

Instead she thought she’d placate the hardliners by invoking it. Again many many people stayed what an idiotic idea it was, but she doesn’t listen or have the brain capacity to understand the implications of her actions.

Who invoked A50 without doing any preparatory work?

I seem to recall that the EU was pressurising us to invoke practically as soon as the referendum decision was known. And we might as well invoke because the sooner we are free then the sooner we can start making deals with the RotW.

It beggars belief that TM and the Gov. thought they could go to the EU and present proposals without running them past the DUP.
What were they thinking?
As a leaver I certainly wouldn't be happy with the idea that we simply 'stay in the single market' because that implies we keep all the other things like FOM and all the EU regulations without a say in them. So that is a complete no no.
The solution I can see is in us getting a free trade deal then none of this would matter and the problems with the NI/ROI border wouldn't happen.

or have the brain capacity to understand

Oh, here we go again. Why does any Remain debate end up being an ad hominen attack on the other side's mental capacity?

the sooner we are free, the sooner we are free to make deals with the Rest of the world.

Yes it's going to be just great e.g. having American corporations dictate whether or not we can increase our national minimum wage.

Another poster who knows the sum total of zero about negotiating free trade agreements.

The solution I can see is in us getting a free trade deal then none of this would matter and the problems with the NI/ROI border wouldn't happen.

How do you mean?

If the DUP want NI to be under the same terms as rest of UK they should implement full UK rights. Termination is still illegal there because the 1967 law has not been implemented in NI.
You can't refuse parity and have parity at the same time.

Um, we won't be able to make unilateral deals with individual EU countries post brexit because they will remain...members of the EU, which is a trading block! Jesus, is this the general brexiteer level of geopolitical knowledge on display on this thread? I actually find that pretty scary. Is there any brexiteer around who actually has a clue able able to give us their perspective?! I'm not joking.

Oh, here we go again. Why does any Remain debate end up being an ad hominen attack on the other side's mental capacity?

The ad hominem attack was against May - who to date does not appear to use the brain that she undoubtedly must have, having made it to Oxford. There are so many times she's blundered in - calling an election, when declaring that she wouldn't, rushing off to Buckingham Palace to tell the Queen she was carrying on, not saying that "the Queen has asked me to form a Government", and now, announcing this agreement without bothering to ask the other parties involved.

Um, we won't be able to make unilateral deals with individual EU countries post brexit because they will remain...members of the EU, which is a trading block! Jesus, is this the general brexiteer level of geopolitical knowledge on display on this thread? I actually find that pretty scary. Is there any brexiteer around who actually has a clue able able to give us their perspective?! I'm not joking.

Who said anything about unilateral deals with EU countries? I know you Remainers are brainwashed Stockholm-syndromers (personal insult right back at ya) but - I break it to you gently - there are other countries out there in RotW that aren't part of the EU. Gasp, who knew.

Here's a question for the Remainers: having seen how the EU have been negotiating with us over the last few months, do you really believe that they are our 'friends'?

So you think Cocory was saying: "The solution I can see is in us getting a free trade deal - with America or Canda and then none of this would matter and the problems with the NI/ROI border wouldn't happen."

That still doesn't make any sense at all.

the EU did not pressurise TM to invoke article 50, in fact it was the opposite they stated they didn't want the UK to leave.

As to being 'free' to trade under WTO rules, we either have an open border with the EU in Ireland and the rest of the world in all UK ports, or if we want to control our borders there has to be one between us and the EU, either in Ireland or on the coast. This was well known before the referendum was called. This mess was all entirely predictable, so either TM & the UK government is just too dense to realise this (unlikely), or it was planned.

Oh yes, the Rest Of The World!

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/12/03/free-trade-deals-prove-strain-whitehall-staff/

The government is falling behind in the race to replicate the European Union’s existing network of free trade agreements for use by the UK after Brexit, trade groups and leading analysts have warned.

Liam Fox, the International Trade secretary, promised in October that the UK would replicate up to 40 of the EU trade deals to be ready for “one second after midnight” on March 29, 2019 to ensure that there was “no disruption” to trade

“Originally it was portrayed as a ‘copy and paste’ job by the Department for International Trade, but everyone is now realising there are some quite complicated issues sitting in these agreements that aren’t directly transposable.”

Fox has conceded that it is not as simple as “cut and pasting” the EU’s existing deals to create bilateral UK equivalents.

So The ElementsSong thinks that we are stuck in a spiders web with the EU and the best thing is to stop struggling and accept it? I voted to get out while we still could.

Don't buy into the British media rhetoric about the nasty old EU bullying you and being mean!
It isn't the EUs fault the UK decided to leave. It's isn't the EU's fault that Article 50 was triggered. It isn't the EU's fault that the UK didn't make any kind of plan for how Brexit would actually work in practice.

it isn't the EU's fault that the UK was so singularly ill prepared for the reality of Brexit that they called it Brexit and completely forgot about that part of the UK that is not in Britain and who actually have a border with the EU and a peace process to protect!
But I guess UKExit didn't sound as good in the media, and that must have been the important bit?

Interesting deliberate misrepresentation of the Telegraph article , which says nothing about the nastybullyingpunishingEU trapping us, but rather our own lack of capacity to produce all those magical Rest Of The World trade deals that are supposedly going to lead to untold wonders.

I was talking about a free trade deal with the EU. The previous sentence was about the single market. I didn't think I needed to spell out that I was talking about a free trade deal with the EU!!!

I don't necessarily think the EU are nasty and i voted Remain, I do, however, this no they have their own agenda in this mess.

I was talking about a free trade deal with the EU. The previous sentence was about the single market. I didn't think I needed to spell out that I was talking about a free trade deal with the EU!!!

As far as I can see, most posters understood you perfectly well, apart from one who is on "your" side, as it were.

The EU's agenda is to let the UK leave in a way that does not mess up the rest of the EU. That is it. The EU wanted none of this.

I see the Daily Mail have already rewritten history.....of yesterday! Apparently TM never actually agreed to any of it and it is all the fault of the Irish media for talking about a deal that TM knew would never happen and didn't offer.

corcory wanting a free trade deal with the EU which doesn't require a border is just more arrogant, cake and eat it nonsense.

Why do you actually still think that's possible?

"Britannia waives the rules..."