Can anyone defend today's shambolic events?

[Bearbehind]

So it seems TM decided to ignore the fact the DUP has said all along they wouldn't support different rules for NI and tell the EU that that was how we are planning to resolve the border issue.

Then Arlene points out that they weren't bluffing and will not support it so TM has to back track.

It's a fucking joke.

TM and her government continue to think everyone else will just back down if they plough on with their arrogant plans.

When are they going to get real?

Seriously, is there any defence for this staggering display of incomptentence?

Triggering article 50 to appease a few die hard tories was crazy. Then immediately calling a general election instead of getting on with the job was a huge gamble.

Both she and Cameron took huge gambles with the nation’s best interests to resolve internal party issues. They both failed. This is about the least patriotic think I can think of.

I just saw on the BBC news that May was "completely surprised by the actions of the DUP re the deal"

Oh my sides...

That's very funny. Imagine going into negotiations that are predicated on getting the DUP to compromise and then being surprised when they refuse point-blank to do anything except dig in their heels and say 'NO!'

Is there no-one left in the British government who has any memory of the peace process and Good Friday Agreement? It took years to work out and was exhausting for all parties and constantly on the brink of collapse - and that was with the support of the USA / George Mitchell to push for a workable agreement. And here's Theresa May thinking she can unravel the GFA and somehow renegotiate the entire fabric of it while also negotiating Britain's exit from the EU. Great. Good luck with that.

I agree with Sludgecolours, I don't think it is credible that TM and her negotiators would go ahead without being 101% certain of the DUP's response.

I am a bear of small brain, but it seems to me either:

1. TM was cavalier about her ability to persuade (or bribe) the DUP.They seem less essential, as it is Labour who are mostly propping up the gov. and giving the requisite majority anyway. Or

1. Arlene and TM are both closet europhiles who secretly see the immense benefits of EU membership, and are performing to a pre agreed script.

I don't believe 2 so it must be 1.

Although the third alternative is just an arrogant belief that the DUP would just do as they're told I suppose. Which is a possibility too.Remember that story recounted by an anxious constituent who revealed that TM waggled her forefinger at her and effectively said 'we are leaving, get over it'.

I think EU's surprise (assuming it is genuine) is part of a crashing realisation that they have over-played their hand.

The (public facing) rhetoric about the need for all to be satisfied - as part of extracting maximum cash from UK, and as way of appearing to have whip hand - has emboldened the Irish, leading to intractability.

They need new thinking on this. The specific issue of the island of Ireland to sort out where there is any wriggle room based on it being a member of Schengen (so it need not be completely porous to whole of EU).

But more importantly within the EU negotiating bloc, because can they actually deliver a deal at all? Will they ever be able to carry all members?

I do wonder if she’s trying to self sabatage.

She didn’t want to leave in the first place so hopefully she’s trying to show how utterly impossible it is to get a good deal for the UK, and will turn around and call another referendum. She’s holding on to keep the likes of BJ out of the way.

Am I mad? What other explanation could there be?

The whole thing is a cluster fuck.

The sooner May, Davis, Gove and Johnson go the better.

We where just recovering nicely from the recession and we go shout let’s fuck our selves up for at least the next decade.

If NI get a better deal than all the remain areas should get that deal including our lonely Northern Renain area.

Good deal. Pretty impossible to get any deal.

Abra1d Cardiff voted remain.

Theresa May made exactly the same assumption of the support of the DUP when she went to the Queen to ask to form a government. She was surprised then too when they said ‘hang on a minute!’

VikingVolva what are you talking about? Emboldened the Irish? The 27 don't appear to have the whip hand - they DO have the whip hand. Against the UK.

If NI get a better deal than all the remain areas should get that deal including our lonely Northern Renain area.

As an avid remainer I really do understand this stance. But as someone in NI it really pisses me off. No other region in the UK has the issues we have here, whatever happens we will need a creative solution to keep the peace process on track. It's galling to see the leaders of other regions not understanding this, and jeopardising our safety by demanding the same deal.

Liv as a Remainer in England I do get that your needs are extremely important and unique.
However I don’t see why we can’t all stay in the single market, requesting that doesn’t mean we are ignoring your safety. It just verbalising that this is the best solution for all.

Plus, what else could Varadkar really do? I don't see that he had many options.

VikingVolva I think you or I need more coffee this morning.

The specific issue of the island of Ireland to sort out where there is any wriggle room based on it being a member of Schengen
As I'm sure we all remember, Ireland is not part of the Schengen agreement, nor does it have any requirement to join Schengen.

Ireland and the UK do make up the Common Travel Area, which has minimal controls on people travelling between one and the other. This arrangement pre-dates membership of the EU.

I'm quite pleased that things haven't gone the EU's way. It's about time.

Viking volva Ireland is not in Schengen.

And the rest of your post is nonsense too.

Lizzie i think the whole of the UK staying in the customs union and single market would be the best solution - it would satisfy most remainers and I suspect all bar the most extreme leavers. It's also more consistent with the GFA than what was suggested yesterday. If that's what Sturgeon, Jones et al were suggesting I'd be right with them. But they're confusing the issue to demand differing treatment for their regions alone. If that makes any sense.

The specific issue of the island of Ireland to sort out where there is any wriggle room based on it being a member of Schengen (so it need not be completely porous to whole of EU).

Ireland isn't a member of Schengen.

Huh?

I'm quite pleased that things haven't gone the EU's way. It's about time.

This isn't the EU's way - this is a situation entirely of our own making.

And 100% predictable from even before the ref, if anyone in government had paid attention.

There's good background on why this should have been entirely predicted on this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3089765-EU-ultimatum-regarding-Northern-Ireland-border

Purits, what is it you actually want from this? Is it just for everything to collapse?

Sorry, cross post.

Not sure what you mean by "It's not gone the EU's way" purits. It most certainly hasn't gone Theresa May's way. Unless you are trying to say it's a "lose-lose" situation.

IMO at long last, some people have begun to realise that it needs substantially more work than mouthing trite slogans, and that any decent agreement takes hours and hours of work, and can't be done in an afternoon.

What VikingVolva wrote is complete nonsense and I don't think the post should be taken seriously.

Purits, what is it you actually want from this? Is it just for everything to collapse?

Actually, the collapse of the EU would be a good thing. Go back to being a free trade area and stop all the ever-closer-union stuff.

I'm quite pleased that things haven't gone the EU's way. It's about time.

Huh? How is this going our way then?

I agree with LizzieSidal. I want to see T May come back to the country and say, this won't work.

Maybe give Brexiteers blue passports, take away their freedom of movement and just leave the rest of us out of it.

Maybe give Brexiteers blue passports, take away their freedom of movement and just leave the rest of us out of it

What an absolutely genius idea!

You’ve just solved the whole bloody thing!

IMO at long last, some people have begun to realise that it needs substantially more work than mouthing trite slogans, and that any decent agreement takes hours and hours of work, and can't be done in an afternoon.

Hmm. let's think about this. Who is insisting that their rules say that it has to be done in an afternoon two years? Oh yes: it's the EU.
Mind you, it's probably a good thing that there is a deadline because the EU always take forever to get anything done. Bilateral agreements can be much quicker.