Can anyone defend today's shambolic events?

[Bearbehind]

So it seems TM decided to ignore the fact the DUP has said all along they wouldn't support different rules for NI and tell the EU that that was how we are planning to resolve the border issue.

Then Arlene points out that they weren't bluffing and will not support it so TM has to back track.

It's a fucking joke.

TM and her government continue to think everyone else will just back down if they plough on with their arrogant plans.

When are they going to get real?

Seriously, is there any defence for this staggering display of incomptentence?

Corcory, it's May who has ruled out customs deals, so whether this, that or the other country has one is a bit of an irrelevance.

This is incorrect.

She has ruled out being a member of the customs union.

She has made it clear that a form of customs deal is the goal.

It astounds me that the views of Leavers are still so completely detached from the reality of the situation.

What is it going to take to make them understand this isn't going to end well if we continue to pursue this self destructive path?

a form of customs deal is the goal.
What, the cake and eat it deal? That the EU should craft from scratch like a bespoke suit, for a bunch of incompetents who persist in shooting themselves in the foot?

How could the EU resist such an opportunity?

"Well, have you left if you still have an open border with the EU and no plan in place for what happens next? I would say you haven't actually left at all."

Don't be silly. Try exporting your medicines to France after a no deal cliff edge. Pharma won't get far saying Cheerio said we don't have to do retesting as it is being imported into the EU but we haven't really left. Or all those banks moving staff are doing it for fun.

Denial is a river in Egypt.

She has made it clear that a form of customs deal is the goal

winning the lotto is my goal, but since I didn't buy a ticket it's even less likely than usual.
That might be the goal but they aren't doing anything to make that goal a reality.

So having left, the UK will reorganise the EU. Is it too early for a gin?

Don't be silly. Try exporting your medicines to France after a no deal cliff edge. Pharma won't get far saying Cheerio said we don't have to do retesting as it is being imported into the EU but we haven't really left. Or all those banks moving staff are doing it for fun

Um, what? Did you totally misread my post? What does french exports have to do with the Irish border, which is what we are talking about?

The point is, you can say "we have left the EU" but if you have an open border with the EU and no plan in place then you haven't actually left, in practice.

No agreement on the Irish border does not leave it open. Under the famous WTO if there is no special agreement, it cannot be treated any differently from the one with France. If the UK has left wrt French Border, it has left with Irish border. Irrespective of any border infrastructure.

How does it not leave it open? It IS different from the one with France already, and of course would be treated totally differently.

You are thinking about theory rather than practice.

What a bloody mess this all is and all so totally predictable.

So we are in the customs union at present, but May want out, to have a customs deal? I.e. which bits can be cherry picked? Is that what you are saying?

David Davis has said categorically that the government want a free trade deal with the EU and has just reiterated this in the HOCs.

No agreement on the Irish border does not leave it open

I really want to know in what way it will be closed?

Didn't David Davis say that the EMA and EBA wouldn't have to leave London despite Brexit because [???] and that it would be subject to negotiations? Somebody remind me how that went?

Seriously. You think goods and livestock will be going over and back that border unchecked in the event of no deal cliff edge Brexit. Along with all the (scream) illegal immigrants.

Seriously. You think goods and livestock will be going over and back that border unchecked in the event of no deal cliff edge Brexit. Along with all the (scream) illegal immigrants

How do you imagine any goods, livestock, people or anything else will be prevented from crossing that 499km border?

Seriously, THINK. How do you close that border, from one side, with no agreement from the people on the other side of it? Who will be checking every road, every access point? HOW?

Reality please, not theory. It is an actual border, not a theoretical one!

Read an article recently where the British gov't admitted there may have to be some militarisation along the border. How was it policed before? Roads will be blown up, bunkered and made impassable to normal people.

Interesting article.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/12/05/a-high-risk-game-of-chicken-is-being-played-over-the-irish-border/

Are you suggesting that the say after the UK leaves with no deal they will blow up every road between NI and Ireland?

Do you know anything at all about the border and the history of it?

Are you suggesting that the say after the UK leaves with no deal they will blow up every road between NI and Ireland?

No, just a high proportion of them.

Do you know anything at all about the border and the history of it?

Do you? That is how the border was policed in the bad times.

You cannot be serious with this?

You actually think the UK government will blow up the roads and put the military along the border?

I don't understand your joke, truly.

In the event of a no deal brexit as I understand it, both sides will have to police the border because of the most favoured nation rules under international law. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong on that because thats my interpretation, but I am happy to be told otherwise.

I sincerely hope they wouldn't. And of course that wouldn't happen on day 1. But it happened before, and I doubt anyone saw it coming then either. This is what people mean when they say a border is a risk to peace.

There were much fewer road crossings historically. Many roads had been rendered unusable by blowing up or blocking off. Same amount of Km, but far fewer official crossings.

I would not be surprised at the return to this.

" During the Troubles in Northern Ireland, there were British military checkpoints on main border crossings and UK security forces made the remaining crossings impassable. By about 2005, in phase with implementation of the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, remaining controls were definitively removed."

From wiki. I'm too lazy to look for more. The open roads are relatively recent.

You can't really find it that incomprehensible as that is exactly what happened before.

You actually think the UK government will blow up the roads and put the military along the border?

Since they did it in recent history - well within the lifetimes of many of the younger posters on this thread, I don't know why anyone expresses credulity. As has been said, it won't happen overnight - but there was a gradual build up to The Troubles from what I recall.