Westministenders: Money, money, money

[RedToothBrush]

The big developments are that the government have signalled they are prepared to pay more and to involve the ECJ when it comes to citizens rights on condition that we move to talk of trade. But no apparent progress on NI. Which is significant with Ireland threatening to veto.

The EU has not changed its stance at all. Since Day 1.

There is always a worrying omission and lack of commitment to retain the Charter of Fundamental Rights. The bonfire begins.

Talk is of Green still going in a reshuffle, possibly with Gove replacing him as Deputy PM.

Coalition talks in Germany have broken down, and the British have got excited about it, whilst the German response have largely been a slight shrug.

Its been a much quieter week, despite the budget. Thank goodness. There are lots of outstanding issues that are lurking in the background like the Green one though.

The main message coming from the budget, has not been any new policy, but the dreadful economic forecast for the next few years.

< Wonder if we could ask the MN Brexiters if this is the kind of deal they voted for ?
In which case, why the red line on FOM ?
Also, if British exporters have to wait until 2030 ..... there may not be many left to use the FTA.....>

India: Is this another of Liam Fox's brilliant Brexit trade deals ?

a) much higher levels of immigration
b) negotiations may take until 2030
< starting April 2019, that's within the usual time range for an FTA >

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/23/britain-must-accept-immigrants-wants-free-trade-deal-warns-senior/

"Britain must accept higher levels of immigration from India if it hopes to sign a free trade agreement after Brexit"
a senior Indian diplomat has warned, as he predicted it could take up to a decade to secure the deal.

YK Sinha, India’s High Commissioner to the UK, said
"freer movement of people and professionals" had to form part of any future deal to ensure it was “mutually beneficial.”

Speaking to Indian business leaders in London, Mr Sinha said he was “very confident” that a “winning partnership” between the two countries would emerge after Britain's departure from the EU.

However, he also warned that signing a free trade agreement was “obviously not going to be easy”
and suggested that the deal may not be complete until 2030."

< btw, the EU are likely to complete an FTA with India soon - it's only been the UK blocking this with its demands >

If it was a federal system, the other nations would be on a par. In a non- federal system, the UK is overwhelmingly governed by England. Look at the cabinet.

the UK is overwhelmingly governed by England. Look at the cabinet
I'm still thinking about the Norman landowners the 70% and Brenda being my landlady. Ground rent and leaseholds,

Scotland used to have a great theatre group called the 7:84 company. 7% of the population own 84% of the wealth.

Reason 12 for brexit: The place is run like a feudal fiefdom.

The European Commission has cancelled the UK's turn to host the European Capital of Culture after Brexit, disappointing the bidding cities

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42097692

DD2 is doing the new history GCSE - she is doing the Norman conquest, Medicine through the Ages and the period leading up to and through WWI and into events leading up to WWII. DD2 is doing A-level History and is doing the Stuarts, the Crusades and the persecution of witches.

^
""According to the rules adopted by the European Parliament and the Council (Decision 445/2014), this action is not open to third countries except candidate countries and European Free Trade Association/European Economic Area countries.
"Given that the UK will have left the EU by 29 March 2019, and therefore be unable to host the European Capital of Culture in 2023, we believe it makes common sense to discontinue the selection process now."

The organisers are understandably disappointed but also quite petulant.

^Dundee's bid team called it "a bombshell for all of us", saying they were "hugely disappointed" that the decision had come days before they were due to make their pitch in London.
"The timing is disrespectful not only to the citizens of Dundee, but to people from all five bidding cities who have devoted so much time, effort and energy so far in this competition," a spokesman said.^

These new syllabuses are wacky pointythings I've made a point of teaching mine the other stuff.

DD2 enjoyed what she's done so far and is really looking forward to the WWI stuff - but then she did a lot of extracurricular stuff with history club about the WWI centenaries, including quite a few trips. DD2 is loving her curriculum, but she has teachers who have both passion and expertise for their particular curriculum areas.

Oh, and I've taught my DDs the older stuff. Romans, ancient Egypt, Prehistoric Europe - knew that archaeology degree would come in handy!

good to hear pointythings one of mine's doing A level: Cold war and Tudors.

Dundee's bid team called it "a bombshell for all of us", saying they were "hugely disappointed" that the decision had come days before they were due to make their pitch in London.
"The timing is disrespectful not only to the citizens of Dundee, but to people from all five bidding cities who have devoted so much time, effort and energy so far in this competition," a spokesman said.

I wonder when they started to prepare their pitches? If it was before the Referendum then I could see that they could legitimately feel narked. If after Theresa May took over and decreed that the UK would leave the Single Market etc, and ruled out an EEA/EFTA option then tough. Especially if those cities voted Leave.

I wonder when they started to prepare their pitches
This thread has more on it Peregrina

@mattholehouse
Following Following @mattholehouse
Understand UK officials repeatedly told DCMS more than a year ago not to let councils bid for EU Capital of Culture 2023, cos EU rules clear it wasn't possible, and UK did not plan to pursue. DCMS pushed ahead. Councils coughed out.

Technically Ron @ technicallyron
In all fairness Brits probably don't do Thanksgiving because if we had to take a day off for the anniversary of us fucking over a native people and ruining their country we'd never have to go to work.

Haha you beat me to it!

I'm getting all confused trying to respond to you about Agincourt Cailleach. My point was simply that it it was only won because of the efforts of the archers - the Normans just embarrassed themselves as they lurched from one end of a disastrous campaign to the next. Agincourt was a battle in a Norman war, but was a Saxon victory.

However at this point I do think the Normans can be classed as 'English', having been there so long (349 years - of course they are English now!), and that 'English' at this point can refer to either/or Normans and Saxons, so Agincourt is an 'English' victory even though the English Normans weren't much help in it.
Whereas they are a foreign invasionary force in 1066, they are the homeside by 1415. Even if they remain completely separate from the Saxon people, and continue to oppress them (recent DNA evidence proves there was scant intermarriage between the two races) - they are English by dint of not belonging anywhere else. They can hardly just go back to Normandy at this point. Therefore no cognitive dissonance is necessary when classing Agincourt as a win for the English, but the battle of Hastings as a loss. Hence why there are prayers of thanksgiving for Agincourt but not Hastings.

And I agree with a lot of what you said, of course it was all about power and greed - all wars are.

I'm not sure which of the Normans/ Angevins/ Plantagenets is supposed to have been Anglo Saxon though? William - Norman, William (1st son) Henry (2nd son) Stephen (of Blois - french) Henry (Henry's grandson via the empress Maud and Geoffrey of Anjou) Richard (Henry's 1st Son) John (2nd son) Henry (John's son) Edward (Henry's son) Edward, Edward, Richard (Edward 3rds Grandson) Henry (Edward 3rds other grandson) Henry V - King during Agincourt.
These men tended to marry french women, or Norman noblewomen - not Saxon brides. This line carries on until the Tudors (war of the roses intervenes, but this is two factions of the house of Plantagenet), who are Welsh on the Tudor side, Plantagenet through the mother's line. Then the Stewarts, then the Hanoverians, the Saxe Coburg Gotha's and on into the Windsors. Nothing revisionist about a lack of Anglo Saxon's on the English throne.

But anyway - I'm only thinking about this because it is so much less scary than thinking about Armageddon 2019

With regards to the syllabus - primary history certainly goes beyond 1066, because the fucking stone age is now one of the main topics that needs to be covered. Romans, Vikings etc remain on - but there does seem to be more and more of a focus on the natives rather than the invaders. It is all a bit nationalist, but easy enough to work around.

Back when I was at secondary a million years ago, they started at 1066 in y7 and worked through til the end of the the French revolution in y8. We then spent an entire year on two world wars (and one world cup) Before entering 2 years of Stalin that made up GCSE history. We had a brief dalliance with the Weimar republic, but before you know it, it's time for the Nazi-Soviet pact and there's good old Uncle Joe again. A level History was also wall to wall Stalin. So if the syllabus doesn't go beyond 1066 in high school that isn't necessarily anything new. But then all the history teachers in my school were modern historians and there may have been an element of choice in what they taught that has since been reduced under mein Gove's britaintastic curriculum.

Anyway ...Brexit ...

Sorry, just got round to reading the BBC article, which answers my questions. Their complaint should be with Theresa May and Co. No one voted to leave the EEA/EFTA - It was not on the ballot paper, despite some politicians telling us categorically that we did vote to Leave the customs Union and Single Market, and ruled out the EEA/EFTA option.

It's on a par with the EMA/EBA leaving 'no reason why they should' we were told by the Brexiters. Now it's happening and they are whining. No, you don't like the EU, so you say goodbye to its benefits too - except that there supposedly weren't any. They have constantly told us that there are more opportunities elsewhere, once we are free of the EU. I wonder if the Leave cities can ask their mate Trump if they can put in for the American City of Culture.

I must admit I find it difficult to see why Istanbul was chosen to host it - because Turkey's chance of being admitted to the EU is virtually zero - except that the Brexiters told us that this was more or less certain to happen. I can see why Istanbul itself is a Capital of Culture - because it's a fascinating place.

mother I've posted this chart before, real wages Q4 2007 - Q4 2015.
Only Greece, Portugal and the UK have lower real wages since then.
All other EU

The low Uk employment rate is because of low wages, only made possible by WTCs (to which those on slightly better incomes contribute)

I did O level history but it was all about the Industrial Revolution. I then did A level which was European History from - I can't quite remember, but we stopped just before the French Revolution, so lots of wars in Scandinavia and Germany and bits about Peter the Great, various Frederick or Frederick Williams of Prussia. We also did 17th Century British History, which covered Oliver Cromwell in Ireland and King William. We did that because our history teacher was particularly interested in this. WW2 hadn't made it into the history books - it was in limbo because it had ceased to be current affairs, but was still relatively recent (and my parents went on and on about The War, The War, when I was your age there was a War on.)

^It's on a par with the EMA/EBA leaving 'no reason why they should'.

Even worse, it would not just be decided by the EU27. It would be subject to negotiations. Negotiations.

Icant, that was my point. There hadn't been an Anglo Saxon arse on the English throne since before 1066. Yet it strangely seems to symbolise an Anglo-Saxon patriotism. Oh, yes the other nations are there, but in reality where did and does power reside. And that is also the interesting thing about that GCSE syllabus. There wasn't a time when the Anglo Saxons migrated from mainland Europe to Britain. Like God, always there. This is politically motivated.

Today, we are used to a civic nationality. So yes if you were born somewhere or have citizenship of that country. That is a different type of identity.

I remember in a museum in Ireland looking at a chainmail suit of armour and the inscription was of a Norman nobleman. 14th or 15th century. Forget which. So term not disappeared and subsumed.

peregrina I think the rules include those whose application for EU or EEA / EFTA membership is being considered
(for however many decades !)

However, the UK having chosen to Brexit, then its govt choosing the Ultra form .....
means the UK has firmly walked away from the EU, rather than knocking on the door, asking to be let in

No WWII Peregrina.

No WWII Peregrina

No, 'when I were a lass' there was All Our Yesterdays on ITV - they were twenty five years behind, so most of what I remember was about Hitler and the rallies going on - it did get to the War, but by then I was hitting my teens and my interests turned elsewhere.

That Flash mob thing posted by Woman at 19:29 looks as though it is happening tomorrow. Here are the details from the facebook page:

Details
Come along and turn your anger and frustration at the monstrosity that is Brexit, through direct action. We will undertaking a pro EU stunt and please bring torches or alternatively have torch app available on your mobile

Reason for Event: To show organised opposition again Brexit; to show support for pro EU MPs; and to demand that the Tory government release the Brexit Impact Study papers to the public immediately. We, the people, have the right to see the contents of the papers. We believe Brexit will lead to economic disaster for Britain, based on the facts and real evidence. People are allowed to change their minds and demand that Brexit is stopped

Event date: Friday 24th November 2017

Event Time: 6.30pm meet. Event and stunt starts 7.30pm

Event location: Meet outside the Duke’s Head public house, 8 Lower Richmond Road, Putney, London SW15 1JN