Westministenders: Money, money, money

[RedToothBrush]

The big developments are that the government have signalled they are prepared to pay more and to involve the ECJ when it comes to citizens rights on condition that we move to talk of trade. But no apparent progress on NI. Which is significant with Ireland threatening to veto.

The EU has not changed its stance at all. Since Day 1.

There is always a worrying omission and lack of commitment to retain the Charter of Fundamental Rights. The bonfire begins.

Talk is of Green still going in a reshuffle, possibly with Gove replacing him as Deputy PM.

Coalition talks in Germany have broken down, and the British have got excited about it, whilst the German response have largely been a slight shrug.

Its been a much quieter week, despite the budget. Thank goodness. There are lots of outstanding issues that are lurking in the background like the Green one though.

The main message coming from the budget, has not been any new policy, but the dreadful economic forecast for the next few years.

Didn't do WW2 when I was at school, either
I did History up to O Level, 1970-1972... so WW2 still too recent apparently

I haven't thought of All Our Yesterdays for 40 years ! A welcome reminder
< nostalgic > it was a monumental work, that series. Educational TV at its best

DD2 is doing the new history GCSE - she is doing the Norman conquest, Medicine through the Ages and the period leading up to and through WWI and into events leading up to WWII. DD2 is doing A-level History and is doing the Stuarts, the Crusades and the persecution of witches.

Dear god ( head in hands)

That type of stuff was introduced two years pre olevel.
Tudors and Stuarts similar..
And this is now sixth form?

I remember learning about Cardwell's Army Reforms (late 19th century) in history, about as modern as we got
He introduced breech-loading rifles, stopped (official) purchase of officers' commissions, stopped flogging

Not an aspect of history that I found to be illuminating or of much use in understanding world events
An odd choice to include

1967-1972 history included useful topics too: bronze age, iron age, ancient Egypt, Assyria, Roman Empire, agricultural revolution, serfdom in England, Industrial revolution, English civil war
Didn't mention British colonisation. Just the abolition of slavery

Ireland only mentioned in passing
Do they teach now what England did there over the last 8-9 centuries ?
Not judging by the ignorant comments on NI and RoI, on MN and elsewhere

Oh, the Norman Conquest too, of course as well as the Roman Conquest

Icant, that was my point. There hadn't been an Anglo Saxon arse on the English throne since before 1066.
My mistake, I re read what you wrote a couple of times, but it looked to me like you were saying there had been Anglo Saxons on the throne, and we were pretending there hadn't. Obviously, you are correct.
And that is also the interesting thing about that GCSE syllabus. There wasn't a time when the Anglo Saxons migrated from mainland Europe to Britain. Like God, always there. This is politically motivated.
I'm torn between thinking that there is something sinister in this new curriculum, because our current government are genuinely racist and sinister; and thinking that it was just throwing the baby out with the bath water, getting rid of everything Labour had put in place and a healthy dollop of incompetence. These are the people who have decided that not only should children learn roman numerals in maths time, they should have to translate them into arabic numbers, find the answer and then translate them back into latin - and then examine them on this ability aged 11. That really does sway me over to the 'incompetent' side of the argument.

There was a lot about Ireland in my 'development of democracies -Britain' A level, but this was only 1/4 of the A level (also democracies -America, and Dictatorships - Hitler and my old bezzie mate Stalin). However A level history was so deadly dull I didn't listen. I believe there was some kind of question pertaining to Ireland?

The thing is -I don't really remember that much because it was a long time ago and I didn't listen. Anything I know about Ireland now is because I took the time to learn it on my own. School should be as much more about fostering enquiring minds and a love of learning, than teaching facts which won't be retained. With the best will in the world, even if you take history to A level, there's still only so many hours in the 7 years that you spend learning history - there are going to be massive gaps. Schools shouldn't try to fill them all in, it's impossible. The place they are failing is not in drilling facts that get kids though exams, whatever those facts may be, its getting children to genuinely want to find out more and learn for themselves.

But then I think there may well be a sinister reason why curriculums are specifically designed to quash that love of learning.

I did History GCSE and A Level in the 1990s. Lots of WW1 and WW2, along with the Industrial Revolution and things like the Peterloo Massacre (GCSE) and Russian Revolution (A Level).

Not much else time wise, but I do remember spending a lot of lessons analysing texts and photos from the time, such as newspaper articles and published eye witness accounts, as well as critical reading of historians such as AJP Taylor. Ie critical analysis thinking skills - do those still get taught today?

At gsce I could choose world history (industrial revolution through to just after wwii) or something else history (older period up to industrial revolution). I think you can guess which I took just from my description.

gsce?

Olenna...i did the same history a level syllabus as you I think
Ds1 is doing GCSE history and is studying;
The plains Indians
Crime and punishment
Weimar and rise of Nazism
Vikings and Anglo Saxons

I'm torn between thinking that there is something sinister in this new curriculum, because our current government are genuinely racist and sinister; and thinking that it was just throwing the baby out with the bath water, getting rid of everything Labour had put in place and a healthy dollop of incompetence. These are the people who have decided that not only should children learn roman numerals in maths time, they should have to translate them into arabic numbers, find the answer and then translate them back into latin - and then examine them on this ability aged 11. That really does sway me over to the 'incompetent' side of the argument.

It is possible to add and subtract with Roman numerals - which I imagine must have been the case, because the Romans were tax collectors and would have needed to record the amounts taken, or due. I don't think it's possible to multiply and divide with them.

What's mostly got written out of our history is how far advanced the Arabs were in maths and science - hence Arabic numerals, and algebra, but the concept of zero originated in India, I believe and didn't reach Europe until sometime like the 14th/early 15th Century.

Why the curriculum is as it is is, I think a bit of both - part genuine racism and a narrow Little England mindset and part throw out Labour/educational experts reforms. Mostly Gove's doing - educationalists were 'the blob' don't forget.

But I think when this period gets to be history people like Cameron, May, Johnson etc. will be seen to be particularly incompetent, but people will also be asking why the Opposition gave up so easily, and seemed to be paralysed like rabbits in the headlights.

I've never heard of Chris Grey. He's a professor at Royal Holloway according to his twitter account.

Fascinating blog about Brexshitter reactions to the negotiations. It's as if the UK is being forced to leave vs wanting to. How true.

Grey blog

mybrainhurtsalot thanks, I'll look out for it.
oliviaD68 good blog thanks.
Cults need victimhood?

for primary age at least horrible histories provides a surprisingly wide and memorable supplement to the history curriculum- having had to suffer these on repeat for a couple of years I'm now constantly surprised at how the facts (and songs) have stuck with dd

Yes, Gray doesn't have the expertise wrt EU trade & rules of North, but his blog reveals a far better understnadung of people e.g.

http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.de/2017/11/why-is-there-so-little-bregret-and-what.html

The Grimsby report was widely mocked by remainers for indicating stupidity or hypocrisy, but I think
it is better understood as an expression of this disconnect between Brexit as a symbolic act and as something that entails non-symbolic consequences

The underlying thought process seems to be
– these are not the consequences that we wanted from the Brexit vote and
‘therefore’ they are either nothing to do with that vote (denial)
^ or are being unnecessarily forced on us by the EU and/or obstructive remainers (blame)^
…
this is significant for those expecting widespread Bregret to put a last minute halt to Brexit.
If the consequences of Brexit are either denied or blamed upon the EU,
and not attributed to or accepted as resulting from the vote to leave,
then no such Bregret can be expected

I freely admit my 2 dc have all the horrible histories dvds...they are what sparked my ds1s love of history 👍😁

I sat history O level in 1982 - we covered everything from 1919 to the boycott of the Moscow Olympics in 1980 - so the rise of fascism and WWII, Ireland, Stalin, the Cold War, the end of the Empire, Suez etc.

My favourite history lessons have always been tales from actual people. I wonder if this technology has stopped us telling or trusting our own stories.

I've learnt a lot from horrible histories. Well as a result of. When something new crops up I always go off and do some digging.

@JolyonMaugham
Hilarious. BeLeave is deleting loads of tweets. Which are showing up as deleted RTs by key Vote.Leave MPs.

Wonder why?

I know that some in Scotland don't like the new (well, 8/9 years old at secondary level) Curriculum for Excellence - but one of its principles was/is to teach critical thinking and the ability to apply knowledge, rather than just to rote learn.

This can cause controversies in Maths exams when some candidates complain that they couldn't work out the maths required to answer the scenario in the question.

Ds has asked his Modern Studies teacher (he is crashing a Higher) that rather than doing an essay on (I think it was) US economics in his Prelim (Mock), which is what they've covered, could he do one on hyperinflation in Zimbabwe, which he has been reading up on for his own interest ?! (To give the teacher his due, he said yes )

prettybird - you need to go over to Secondary Education where there is a question about an 'impossible' question set for 15 year olds in New Zealand. It can actually be worked out with some simple knowledge of the angles of triangles, or in a more advanced way using trig.

they couldn't work out the maths required to answer the scenario in the question

Is this the famous crocodile and zebra question? DS was in the first cohort to go through the new exam system - it was “interesting”!

No nothing to do with crocodiles and zebras - all to do with finding an angle.