Westministenders: Money, money, money

[RedToothBrush]

The big developments are that the government have signalled they are prepared to pay more and to involve the ECJ when it comes to citizens rights on condition that we move to talk of trade. But no apparent progress on NI. Which is significant with Ireland threatening to veto.

The EU has not changed its stance at all. Since Day 1.

There is always a worrying omission and lack of commitment to retain the Charter of Fundamental Rights. The bonfire begins.

Talk is of Green still going in a reshuffle, possibly with Gove replacing him as Deputy PM.

Coalition talks in Germany have broken down, and the British have got excited about it, whilst the German response have largely been a slight shrug.

Its been a much quieter week, despite the budget. Thank goodness. There are lots of outstanding issues that are lurking in the background like the Green one though.

The main message coming from the budget, has not been any new policy, but the dreadful economic forecast for the next few years.

Christ on a bike...
😯😩😣

@howabout

Olivia as I understand it, the sticking point for "sufficient progress" is the veracity of the assurances given to date re the Border,

So the EU does not trust what the UK is saying? Why do you think that is?

rather than the content. The details on how to implement "no hard border" is of necessity tied up with the final trade deal.

Uh no it is not. We have already rejected a SM/CU membership so by necessity there will be a trade agreement. This implies by necessity a hard border. The only choice is therefore where that border is. Either it lies at the border with the ROI and NI or the UK agrees that NI is a special economic zone which is part of the SM/CU.

WTO type construct leads to a border as well. Zero choice.

Do you see it differently?

Looks like Trump is on a one man mission to reduce Twitters usefulness.

Not to mention the UK hasn't given any assurances on the border. Just some twaddle about not wanting a border and imaginative thinking.

@HashiAsLarry

You're forgetting blockchain and drones. Because that will stop fraud and solve WTO MFN problems ...

Trump's not even dressing up his Islamophobia and fascism now - I wonder if whoever his press secretary is now (I've lost track) will try to defend it? It is truly scandalous.

Not to mention the UK hasn't given any assurances on the border. Just some twaddle about not wanting a border and imaginative thinking.

That might fool Brexiteers (after all, they're not renowned for critical thinking). Unlikely to fool the collective wisdom of the descendants of the Enlightenment. Only a signature on a dotted line will do.

Look how quickly the fine words about Manchester got forgotten ?

by necessity there will be a trade agreement
Really? I thought that the U.K. could well end up with a trade agreement and function under WTO rules.

by necessity there will be a hard border
Actually I sort of agree with that. But the cost to Ni an the U.K. could be huge. The Friday Agreeet was very hard won and I wouod be very worried about a system that will start all the ‘troubles’ there again.
But then I can’t see any solution that everyone will be happy with AND will work with the U.K. out of the EU either :(:(

And now, the game we've all been waiting for:

Commonwealth Sweepstakes

Yes, you lucky people have a once in a lifetime chance to pick a Commonwealth country, and using your skill, judgement and knowledge (sorry Brexiteers) of the colonial history of the UK, enter a guess as to when a trade deal could be agreed.

I'll start ...

India, 2030

Is blockchain imaginative enough though? Surely we should be looking at some sort of membrane that only let's through the worthy?

Wrt the divorce bill, only a few months ago wasn't it claimed it was only right it was gone through line by line? I'm guessing that's either not happened or the EU werent actually taking the piss. Probably both.

@RagingFemininist

You are right. There may not be a trade agreement in the sense of a DCFTA - we may have to revert to some WTO construct, which is what I meant below. Awkward wording on my part.

Hashi I think the divorce bill offer was made line by line hence the uncertainty about the amount.

LH New Zealand 2026

Tinfoil hat required

Brexiteers: Oh shit. We've finally been rumbled about having to pay a whopping amount to the EU ... who will help us ?

(quick transatlantic Whatsapp parley)

Team Trump: Don't worry guys, we've got your back

Top story:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42166663
( Trump account retweets incediary videos )

Brexiteers: Phew. Thanks hombres we were worried for a bit.
Team Trump: Y'all welcome. Have a nice day now.

Wheres Woodrow Wilson when you need him ?

Trump's not even dressing up his Islamophobia and fascism now

He dressed it up before???!

I feel there was a certain amount of bluster before. This is just naked.

And this shitbag is still at Gallup 37% approval. How is this possible?

Anyway, back to Brexshit.

All,

I'd like to propose the UK leave the UNITED NATIONS instead of the EU.

The Food and Agriculture Organisation of the UN is the culprit for bendy bananas standards which BoJo sold as being a reason to leave the EU. So he made a slight mistake. EU. UN. Close right?

Do we all agree the UN is a horrible organisation for doing this (in the 1960s) under a horrible set of standards called CODEX ALIMENTARIUS?

LH

I'll play common wealth bingo.I'll have Australia 2022.

(But ,like India, they have already said it is contingent on freer movement of forriners.)

The thing is that there isn't much 'common' wealth, these 52 countries are mostly small in terms of trade and take only 9% of UK exports.

The top 10 Commonwealth countries put together including India, Pakistan, Australia, and Canada make up only 8% of our exports.By contrast, 44% of exports go to other EU countries.

And this shitbag is still at Gallup 37% approval. How is this possible?

People lie ?

If we take nothing else away from 2017, it's that polls are not predictions.

I suspect Theresa May would dodge an election with 110% approval.

On a more serious note, I wonder how much of polling error is down to "the lolz" ? It may be that we look back and realised that social media, and an "engaged society" changed the way people respond to polls, as they can receive almost instant feedback, thus leading to the (imagined) possibility of gaming the pollsters.

Or, to put it another way: If I thought Theresa May getting high approval ratings made an election more likely, guess what I would answer to the question : "Do you think Theresa May is doing a good job ?".

Everything in life has balance. It's entirely possible that one side in the ceaseless war between Good and Evil briefly gained the upper hand by using the FAKE NEWS tactic. But it will serve them right when they suddenly discover they can't trust the news anymore.

If Brexiteers weren't so learning averse, they might remember Aesop. Although as a dirty foreigner, he probably wasn't worth much.

(notes entries) ...

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/11/29/brexit-why-i-refuse-to-apply-for-british-citizenship

A lot of this article resonates with me.

@LurkingHusband

People Lie?

About supporting Trump?

My question was rhetorical. I know the answer - there are many Americans who like his antics and are deeply racist. He has brought that out.

Like this Brexshit disaster.

Difference between the two -Trump is temporary. I predict he is out in six months because of Mueller.

But Brexshit is permanent. A permanent clusterfuck. Much more damaging than this orange dotard pile of crap.

I don't think it is people lying in surveys. Of course people lie and exaggerate, but you tend to get the same proportion of liars and exaggerators in each survey.

It is hard to change people's minds and human nature tends to sunken fallacy, where you have invested so much in something, you have to go on investing even though deep down you know it's not the right thing to do. Re Brexit and Trump, by admitting you were wrong, you also have to admit that your vote played a part in creating the current situation.

Brexit and Trump have really divided people and what you see with a lot of survey data on immigration and politics at the moment is that a core on each side has really sunk their heels in and are not for moving.