Westministenders: Money, money, money

[RedToothBrush]

The big developments are that the government have signalled they are prepared to pay more and to involve the ECJ when it comes to citizens rights on condition that we move to talk of trade. But no apparent progress on NI. Which is significant with Ireland threatening to veto.

The EU has not changed its stance at all. Since Day 1.

There is always a worrying omission and lack of commitment to retain the Charter of Fundamental Rights. The bonfire begins.

Talk is of Green still going in a reshuffle, possibly with Gove replacing him as Deputy PM.

Coalition talks in Germany have broken down, and the British have got excited about it, whilst the German response have largely been a slight shrug.

Its been a much quieter week, despite the budget. Thank goodness. There are lots of outstanding issues that are lurking in the background like the Green one though.

The main message coming from the budget, has not been any new policy, but the dreadful economic forecast for the next few years.

Twitter and Facebook responses published

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/digital-culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/social-media-letters-published/

After the Chair of The Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee, Damian Collins MP, wrote to Facebook on 19th October 2017 and to Twitter on the 3rd November 2017, regarding information held by them on Russian-linked accounts, the Committee has now received written responses from both companies.

Letter from Simon Milner, Facebook, 21 November 2017 www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/culture-media-and-sport/171121-Simon-Milner-Facebook-to-Chair.pdf

Letter from Nick Pickles, Twitter, 24 November 2017 www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/culture-media-and-sport/171124-Nick-Pickles-Twitter-to-Chair.pdf

hollie re the Goldsmiths research up thread, it's also about the difference between being a patriot (positive love of your country) and a nationalist (evil, fearful, divisive and inward looking).

@JolyonMaugham
Rape a woman. Abuse a child. Sell a man. Torture, if you like. Only, choose an immigrant. Who now won't go to the police

@IanDunt
This is the most important story we've published on the site this year www.politics.co.uk/news/2017/11/28/woman-reports-rape-to-police-and-is-arrested-on-immigration …

@acgrayling
A C Grayling Retweeted Not So Strong
Unconscionable & unacceptable. What is our country becoming

@StrongerStabler
Pauline Watson has lived in UK for over 50yrs - she recieved a letter saying she was an illegal immigrant - was shipped to a detention centre then a removal centre. This is the toxic 'hostile environment' that Theresa May has fostered #NastyParty …

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/28/i-cant-eat-or-sleep-the-grandmother-threatened-with-deportation-after-50-years-in-britain#img-2

Pauline Watson has lived in UK for over 50yrs

Another heartbreaking story caused by May's "hostile environment".

I'm sure though, that there will be people sneering "Why didn't the woman apply properly, it's her own fault that her family is being ripped apart?"

I think this is a key paragraph in explaining how these things are happening:
"Migrant rights charities around the country are increasingly coming across people who have been living here for 50 or more years – often people from the Commonwealth – who came to the UK when there was no need to apply formally for leave to remain. They have only recently encountered problems because they have no documents to prove their right to be here."

My family are from a Commonwealth country, which was still under British rule when my parents were born. On their birth certificates, it lists their parents' nationalities, and their own, as "British". Had they decided to move to the UK 50-odd years ago, they too would never have needed to formally apply to settle.

elements apparently random rule changes, another sign.

I can't get my head round the lack of moral compass of leavers who still defend a state doing this. There seems to be a gap where humanity should be.

And elements glad you're here.

This might be of interest hollie

At Yale, we conducted an experiment to turn conservatives into liberals. The results say a lot about our political divisions.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2017/11/22/at-yale-we-conducted-an-experiment-to-turn-conservatives-into-liberals-the-results-say-a-lot-about-our-political-divisions/?utm_term=.c0683120069b

My dad came to the UK almost 60 years ago from Italy. I've only been theoretically worried about his status until now [sad[. I can't speak for other immigrants but my dad wouldn't be able to pass a citizenship test, to be blunt, he's not literate enough.

I mentioned before that my DM gave up trying to become a British citizen after multiple attemps back when I was a kid because of ever changing goalposts despite on paper having a perfect case. My df took Irish citizenship instead and when my sister and I were old enough they applied for Irish passports for us.

A few years back I applied for a British one. I had a real battle getting it. I was told I wasn't entitled as I was an Irish citizen. Thankfully I was born before the 1983 (I think) cut off, in Britain to a parent who was British at that point. Took a while but I got my dual nationality recognised.

It's terrifying to think that I was left open to deportation from the only country I've ever known as a home. I'm glad I did it back when I did too as I imagine now would be harder.

It's really shit for those poor people. There was definitely an empathy lobotomy.

Thanks woman

Did we have a discussion earlier about Brexit mastermind Hannan trying to rewrite his own history by deleting old writings? It's such a shame there's this thing on the Internet called archiving.

archive.fo/CDBFf

Short version: It's not ageing well

My dad came to the UK almost 60 years ago from Italy. I've only been theoretically worried about his status until now [sad[. I can't speak for other immigrants but my dad wouldn't be able to pass a citizenship test, to be blunt, he's not literate enough.

With my DF(85) it's Sicily, and 55 years. There would have been no problem with the literacy - until he lost his sight. He made a point of learning English, since setting up and running your own business in Britain insists on it.

My British DM passed away earlier this year, and DFs main worry is he might be deported before he can be buried next to her.

Growing up, we heard tales of Facism, Mussolini, and how it started, so it's nice to be able to watch the play of the book. Say what you will about immersive theatre - it's certainly the show of your life.

It's such a shame there's this thing on the Internet called archiving.

FAKE NEWS ! FAKE NEWS !

@Painintheear

Great article - thanks. Makes sense that people react strongly to basic feelings. Fear is a big driver.

It's such a shame there's this thing on the Internet called archiving.

Many years ago when I was at Uni and involved in things "netty", I did a piece on the possibility of cryptographically signing content for public archiving purposes. A bit like publishing it in newspapers for official record. Of course back then, nobody could see the point of a "public JANET" as I called it, so it was only academic.

It's interesting that one of the reasons BitCoin is a bit crap, was because people started leveraging the blockchain for ... cryptographically signed archives.

Hopefully now the "Brexit Bill" parameters are being agreed the finer details on citizens rights can be settled and agreement to roll final Irish border trade settlement into trade talks can be made and a lot of the uncertainty will end. The £ seems to think so this morning.

Palmer & Harvey looks like a good bad news story if it reflects falling rates of smoking. I did a bit of research into the so called "Glasgow effect" on life expectancy recently. The most convincing research I found attributed it, substantially, to differential smoking rates.

Someone needs to keep a tally of jobs lost and jobs being created, and see how the totals match.
An easy way is to look how many jobs are available.
And it seems that, surprise, surprise, the number of jobs available is going down....

Surprise surprise

Sam Coates Times‏
@SamCoatesTimes

Exc: The Times has spoken to someone who has seen and studied the secret Brexit sectoral reports - and say they have “totally inadequate” conclusions which “glosses over” problems

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/239083de-d486-11e7-9825-214165100f73

Sam Coates Times
@SamCoatesTimes

The source added that the sectoral reports did not analyse separately the different types of Brexit (high/Low divergence; no deal) - which they thought a mistake

And I agree that the citizenship test is more of a literacy test than anything else (hence why too so many Brits wouldn’t be able to pass said test).

Ha, "surprise surprise" clearly the phrase of the day

@howabout

Hopefully now the "Brexit Bill" parameters are being agreed the finer details on citizens rights can be settled and agreement to roll final Irish border trade settlement into trade talks can be made and a lot of the uncertainty will end. The £ seems to think so this morning.

You really think so? Why would the EU agree to change its own process when Ireland - which has a veto - saying no?

What uncertainty do you expect will end? That we still have no idea what Brexit will look like other than a crap deal similar to the Canada DCFTA?

This might spark more "surprise surprise" moments later on

Steve Bullock‏
@GuitarMoog
Quick prediction. Within days, or possibly hours, Senior Brexit Ultras will be using the Govt's agreement to the Financial settlement as a pretext to call for that same Government to walk out of negotiations and precipitate a Kamikaze no deal Brexit.

Add this to the list of exemptions wanted/jobs lost

Construction bodies warn of Brexit 'cliff edge' skills gap

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42155228

The construction sector, which employs around 3 million people, faces "cliff edge" skills shortages over access to EU workers, the seven bodies said.

The Home Office said there would be an "implementation period" for a new immigration system after Brexit.

^And EU citizens would be able to apply for settled status, it added.
The UK already has severe construction skills shortages, the bodies said in their new Construction Industry Brexit Manifesto.^

These could be exacerbated without a two year transitional period that involves "a clear path to settled status", it said, not only for EU workers who are already here, but for those who arrive within that period.

"For those entering the UK during the implementation period there appears to be little certainty that they will have the right to remain beyond those two years," it said.

The industry wants to recruit and train additional UK workers, but this will take time, said Brian Berry, chief executive of the Federation of Master Builders.

"We know we need to step up as an industry and train more home-grown talent but we also have to be realistic about the future.

"There will continue to be some ongoing need for migrant workers and our post-Brexit migration rules will need to be fit for purpose," he said.

Richard Beresford, chief executive of the National Federation of Builders, said:

"With the country facing a shortage of skilled workers and the most acute housing crisis in living memory, the government needs to provide certainty to existing EU workers in the UK and enable construction SMEs to attract more home-grown talent into the industry."

Well that's a simple way to not build those 300k homes promised, along with the previous 300k homes that haven't been built.