Westministenders: Money, money, money

[RedToothBrush]

The big developments are that the government have signalled they are prepared to pay more and to involve the ECJ when it comes to citizens rights on condition that we move to talk of trade. But no apparent progress on NI. Which is significant with Ireland threatening to veto.

The EU has not changed its stance at all. Since Day 1.

There is always a worrying omission and lack of commitment to retain the Charter of Fundamental Rights. The bonfire begins.

Talk is of Green still going in a reshuffle, possibly with Gove replacing him as Deputy PM.

Coalition talks in Germany have broken down, and the British have got excited about it, whilst the German response have largely been a slight shrug.

Its been a much quieter week, despite the budget. Thank goodness. There are lots of outstanding issues that are lurking in the background like the Green one though.

The main message coming from the budget, has not been any new policy, but the dreadful economic forecast for the next few years.

BBC R4 news just said government doesn't recognise news about divorce bill agreement

@ShippersUnbound
Telegraph says tonight we will be paying 45bn to 55bn to the EU.

Remember when Downing Street rubbished this?

It's not a very well organised coup is it?

The Element I've looked at that thread . It's shocking although I admire those who are trying to wade through the ignorance/ misinformation .

That must have been more than a decade ago

Oh, it was . Many decades ago. And not in this country.

But the most amazing wedding photos.

From yahoo:

Support for Brexit is strongly linked to a fear of immigrants, research has found – regardless of people’s gender, age or education level.

Researchers at Goldsmith found that British citizens who agreed that immigrants threaten their values and way of life were more likely to have voted for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union.

There are three groups that we can differentiate that are supportive of those sorts of views,” said Dr Agnieszka Golec de Zavala, a social psychologist at Goldsmiths

She says that the three groups are authoritarians, who believe immigrants will destroy the traditional status quo in Britain, ‘socially dominant’ people who compete for their group’s dominance over immigrants, and ‘collective narcissists’ who believe that Britain is simply better and entitled to privileged treatment.

The research also found that people who just thought it was great to be British or just valued their British identity were not more likely to reject immigrants or vote for Brexit.

Dr Golec de Zavala says, ‘From Brexit, Trump and support for Vladimir Putin in Russia to the nationalist, ultra- conservative government in Poland, studies from our and other labs show that collective narcissism systematically predicts prejudice, aggression and a tendency to interpret innocent behaviors as provocation to the national group.’

collective narcissism systematically predicts prejudice, aggression and a tendency to interpret innocent behaviors as provocation to the national group

This 2016 article shows brexit is popular with IS.

David Cameron warned last month that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of Isis, would be pleased by a Brexit

Answering questions at the World Economic Forum, he said: “It is worth asking the question: Who would be happy if we left? Putin might be happy, I suspect al-Baghdadi might be happy

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/isis-brexit-news-eu-referendum-result-praises-response-islamic-state-daesh-political-crisis-crusader-a7109781.html

I've been away for some time but v glad you're all still here, and I still lurk from time to time to get a concise summary of ever increasing disasters happenings

Was having a nose around the Vote Leave site for the NI border thread, and came across these beauties from one M Gove. I present them for comparison to the reality of the post-Brexit vote:

[on voting to Leave] We would be starting a process, a happy journey to a better future. But, crucially, a journey where we would be in control, whose pace and direction we would determine for ourselves. And whose destination we could choose.

[On Art 50:] It would not be in any nation’s interest artificially to accelerate the process and no responsible government would hit the start button on a two-year legal process without preparing appropriately.

And Gove on the Remainer's doom laden forecasts:
...To cap it all, an alliance of Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump, emboldened by our weakness, would, like some geopolitical equivalent of the Penguin, Catwoman and the Joker, be liberated to spread chaos worldwide and subvert our democracy.

Bloody fools in the In campaign! Of course Marine Le Pen was no threat.

More bollocks, including this rather nasty refugee crisis dog whistle here
It is bad enough that we have to maintain an open door to EU nationals - from the shores of Sicily to the borders of the Ukraine...we have to impose stricter limitations on individuals from other nations whom we might actively want to welcome.

< waves to Anlaf >
Do drop in whenever you pass this way

Ignorance of Irish history means Brexit talks will not end well

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ignorance-of-irish-history-means-brexit-talks-will-not-end-well-1.3305818
…
It is to the discredit of the British government that they continue a baleful tradition of assuming things about foreigners that have few roots in fact.
…
The idea that Leo Varadkar, or anybody else in this State, would under any circumstances sign up to another hard border
displays so much ignorance, so much arrogance, so much stupidity

that I am left wondering about all those stereotypes of my fellow Brits.

Brexit has poisoned British political life and it now threatens something similar for relations between the UK and Ireland.

Ignorance of history and zero appetite for the details of European law have combined to produce the current chaos.

How can the British not realise that a customs union logically and legally necessitates a hard border between those inside and outside that union?

It really is as simple as that.

all-Ireland referendum on 22 May 1998 approved the terms of the GFA:

Northern Ireland: 71.1% voted yes
Republic of Ireland: 94.4% voted yes

A lot more impressive than 52%

Yes to both Kathleen and 'Finn McCool', Peregrina.

Don't like IDS and would never give any credence to words which pass his lips.

However, his tv appearance today takes the Brexit. The Irish gov't supposedly worried about the upcoming presidential elections and sinn fein. That is why they are so worried about NI and are taking a hard line.

You could have picked my jaw up off the floor. He has no idea whatsoever about Irish presidential elections. If the present incumbent wants to stay another term, there won't even be an election. He tried to drag a stance for self preservation of the country and island into some sort of reaction to SF.

If FG and Varadkar call another GE (and I wouldn't be surprised if they do in the new year to put clear blue water between him and the previous administration), I would be surprised if they didn't romp home. They seem to have an energy the last gov't lacked.

So, IDS was so in the realms of BS and so wide of the mark on this, i would never, ever, trust anything he says again.

Everyone loves Michael D. He has a job for life.
cloud.lovindublin.com/images/michael-tea-higgins.png?mtime=20170104122541

Wrt the Dominic Raab demo - They're asking for poster/demo material suggestions as well as good short slogans

"You know he's lying cos his lips are moving"

This is good. I don't know how we square this circle.

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/28/divided-britain-brexit-alarm

On a side note, where have all the brexit shills gone? Politics board is dead too - perhaps they got tired of talking to themselves about calexit and the imminent collapse of German civilisation. Howabout, who deserves a medal for consistency and politeness, must feel like a lone voice in the wilderness right now.

On a side note, where have all the brexit shills gone?

Trying to compose a “Why being in contempt of parliament shows that Brexit is Great” essay to carve into their chipolata?

To be fair, IDS is only reflecting the general level of ignorance and utter lack of concern of many Brexiteers towards the Irish situation.

I certainly won't be fair to IDS - I will be more fair to the average Brexiter who voted for more money for the NHS, or to protest against Cameron and Osborne's austerity. People who have to get on with making ends meet in their daily lives.

I won't be fair to anyone in Government who is clueless about the Irish situation. The first thing they should have done was have a crash course in Irish history. Even watching that harrowing programme on BBC4 a few weeks ago about Bobby Sands would have made them better informed and brought home some of the potential seriousness of the situation. As others have said, why does no one slap them down when they come out with their ignorant rubbish?

Ssssshhhhh ... you did all see that movie “Candyman”?

why does no one slap them down
Because lib dems are in trouble and labour is now a politically compromised misogynistic sect run as a fiefdom.

Well here's some potential good news for the Brexit brigade, to counter balance the 2,500 jobs just gone with Palmer and Harvey.

Our esteemed prime minister is busy and, completely understandably, doesn't make many trips outside Europe, but she's visiting Saudi again it's a second visit as she prioritised a visit only 11 months ago.
I seem to recall that Trump was hot on her heels with his similar visit to Saudi last time and presumably he trumped our offers of arms. So we are clearly desperate for something over there.

Since March 2015, the UK has approved £3.3 billion in military sales to Saudi Arabia (Campaign Against Arms Trade). So presumably that is what we are after- arms deals?

Yet 3.3 billion isn't very much. The European Union is the second largest economy in the world with an estimated GDP of €16.5 trillion. Shouldn't we have different priorities like selling civilised goods and services to those neighbourly customers on our doorstep?

What am I not understanding here?

Someone needs to keep a tally of jobs lost and jobs being created, and see how the totals match. So the Brexiters could have their 10 jobs in Wigan Ice Rink, and their 150 new jobs at Merck, but set against this the 2,500 with Palmer and Harvey. This would probably be a good task for the New European.

There's a valiant attempt at an account with a ' jobs -lost -to- Brexit' Facebook group thingy.

However it just posts separately as jobs go, or when each company goes into liquidation, there isn't an easily readable on going tally.

This would probably be a good task for the New European.

It would be an even better task for the Daily Fail.

David Allen Green
@davidallengreen

The EU receiving €50-100bn, and the UK still only getting EFTA or a Canadian-type FTA, is what "having your cake and eating it" looks like

It would be an even better task for the Daily Fail.

Does a leopard change its spots?

The EU receiving €50-100bn, and the UK still only getting EFTA or a Canadian-type FTA, is what "having your cake and eating it" looks like

If I can state the obvious, if we eventually end up with an EFTA or a Canadian type FTA ( and here's desperately hoping we manage to save at least that) what a monumentally expensive, foolhardy advisory referendum that will have turned out to be.

It's a lot like having your cake and eating it... When you become a coeliac vegan. You can have cake, you can eat it but it's going to be expensive and somewhat disappointing.