Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again. A Big Battle Looms.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2017 13:56

Today has seen the publication of a story about how Johnson and Gove are holding May hostage in a ‘soft coup’ and have made various demands over what they want for a hard Brexit. The letter which was for May’s and Barwell’s eyes only has some how leaked. Don’t forget how Gove has just joined the Brexit Cabinet.

It comes at a time, when the Observer is also leading with an editorial demanding Johnson goes over his handling of the Nazarin Zagheri-Ratcliffe case as well as his long list of poorly judged comments which have had diplomatic consequences and another newspaper is leading with a story about how 40 Tories are ready to no-confidence May.

It all smacks of a personal battle between May and Johnson to govern the party, which has been playing out publicly for some time, most noticeable in the parallel Tory party conference leadership speeches and Johnson’s freelancing.

Johnson also seems to be potentially caught up, with what happens in the Mueller investigation due to a photo and lying about having met Misfud which could be politically damaging.

Priti Patel’s –sacking-- resignation also fits in neatly with the story. The Foreign Office were not informed and there is the curious side story that May DID know various details but told Patel to keep quiet, so not to embarrass the FCO. Or more to the point, be seen to be undermining Johnson.

Whether this is true or not we don’t know. It does have implications if its true, but it also says something if its not too. Why leak the story at all? Once again its about the Johnson v May dynamic.

As it stands, if Gove and Johnson have been leading May then why would they decide to ditch her and go for power without her?
Notably Gove has the best satisfaction scores of the Cabinet amongst Tories on Conservative Home too. He has had a lot of favourable comments over his statements over pesticides. The pair seem to have put differences aside and are working together. And May has become more and more of a liability. Johnson, also came second favourite to be Tory leader amongst Tories (if you discount don’t knows and none of the aboves). Maybe they fancy their chances…

Or it’s a last ditch attempt to cling on to that power as threats that Johnson might finally get the boot – if Zagheri-Ratcliffe does have her sentence extended and Johnson’s position is no longer tenable for even May’s self-preservation. Whilst much has been framed about it being about May’s political survival, its definitely not just her whose future is in doubt. Who was the ‘dead wood’, that young Tories demanded be ditched in a reshuffle to bring in young blood? Either way, Gove has firmly hitched his wagon to Johnson's effectively repeating Johnson's dismissal of Zagheri-Ratcliffe's case.

Anyway another week and another set of high political drama is a foregone conclusion.

A round up of other developments this week:

Tory Party / Government

  1. May announces intention to enshrine Brexit leaving date in law to force rebels to tow the line. This has many implications, not least tax related and putting more pressure on the UK government. It’s generally regarded as a desperate move by anyone sane.
  2. The Impact Assessments were a dogs dinner that was done at the last minute, and were not worth the paper they were written on. There was no detail to them.
  3. Priti Patel’s –sacking—resignation after having undocumented and unauthorised meetings with a series of Israel ministers. And then lying about it.
  4. Penny Mordaunt, who lied about the UK not having a veto to stop Turkey joining the EU, replaced Patel.
  5. Damien Green Porn. Another ex-policeman is backing the story that it was found on his computer despite Green’s denials.
  6. The ongoing Zagheri-Ratcliffe story with Iran and Johnson’s gaff and none apology
  7. Photograph of Johnson with ‘The Professor’ Misfud has been found. This links Johnson to how events in the US might pan out. If there are lots more revelations in the Mueller inquiry about him, then that might reflect on Johnson and make him subject to some difficult questions. Politically this might be problematic for Johnson.
  8. Claims that the whips office leaked the name of someone who reported allegations against Nigel Evans which occurred 6 months after Evans had been cleared of rape and the sexual assault of six men
  9. Suspended Tory MP Charlie Elphicke has complained that he is yet to be informed of what he has been accused of.
  10. Young Tory MPs issue threat to May that she brings in young blood and gets rid of ‘dead wood, who do nothing but screw up’. Give her until the New Year to do so.
  11. 40 Tories apparently ready to no confidence May.
  12. Lord Ashcroft’s latest poll reveals a very small percentage of people want a no deal situation despite all the noise of it being a good idea.
  13. Lord Ashcroft mentioned in the Paradise papers. Reported as domiciled in Belize despite assurances given to parliament that he would give up his non-dom status and pay tax in the UK as a Lord.

Parliament / Opposition both inside and outside parliament
14) May facing a possible revolt over Universal Credit. MPs due to vote on reducing wait times.
15) Talk that there are enough Tory Rebels prepared to back a Dominic Grieve amendment to force a meaningful vote on the Brexit Deal.
16) May under increasing pressure from business leaders to make a deal after a meeting with them at no. 10.
17) Lots of distraction in the Paradise Papers generally which raises the question over the power and influence of the super rich versus the poor. This plays well to Labour’s narrative and against the idea of a low tax post Brexit Britain.
18) Lord Kerr, author of the a50 clause states that May has misled the public and insists that it is reversible.
19) New Money Laundering and Sanctions Bill in the Lords. Government looking to omit 4th EU directive on tax avoidance. Naturally raises questions about whether UK would adopt new rules due to come into force the week after Brexit Day.
20) Money Laundering Bill also has lots of overlap with immigration and home office operations, raising some rather sinister questions over who could be affected and why. Potential for abuse seems to be huge.
21) Leave leaning Cornwall and Grimsby seeking special status in the face of Brexit – in line with remaining to preserve business / economic interests
22) Suicide of Welsh Assembly Labour member who was under investigation for sexual harassment
23) A Labour MP accuses the already suspended fellow Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins of inappropriate behaviour.

EU
24) Ireland demands the UK stays in the customs union.
25) Brexit talks have not progressed at all despite apparently being speeded up. Barnier saying that progress in December only possible if UK makes moves on the settlement deal. Prospect of stage two being delayed until March being raised. This leaves just 7 months to come to a deal, which plays to the No Deal Crowd’s interests.
26) EU believe the UK are not working in the best interests of the UK and there is a failure by May and Davis to understand the process or what No Deal will mean.
27) EU signalling that there is no bespoke transition. Only available options ae EEA or EFTA fudges.
28) Increasing view in Brussels that No Deal likely. EU think May hasn’t got the authority to come to a deal and its easier for her to drag UK off the cliff. Though they have doubts she will survive much longer.

World
29) Trump sides with Putin above the US Intelligence Community over the Russian election interference. On Veterans Day.
30) US’s Wilbur Ross said UK will have to dump European food safety standards and that losing our passporting rights to the EU would harm our interests with the US.
31) Developments in Lebanon, with it being said that Saudi Arabia said to have declared war. Many would consider this to be a proxy war against Iran. Crown Prince has purged political opponents including several with significant Wall Street interests. Eight died in a helicopter crash.
32) Large scale far right march in Poland as part of their Independence Day.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
50
woman11017 · 17/11/2017 17:40

@faisalislam
Varadkar also tells @skynews Ireland is in a “very strong position” as it has the strength of 26 member states and 400m people behind it pic.twitter.com/VnOelP1YyV

ouch

HashiAsLarry · 17/11/2017 18:11

rtb you have a far more temperate child than my ds. His favourite tack is to refuse to eat anything until I give in to what he wants (like beans) which he can't have (because there's none in the house) and won't help me get (going to the shops is a no too). He is slowly working out that he doesn't get what he wants out of this, but still tries in from time to time 😤

RedToothBrush · 17/11/2017 18:23

Oh don't get me wrong. DS is the WORST eater ever.

He refuses EVERYTHING and has been currently on strike over even the things he normally wants.

But you said it yourself. The logic is if he refuses he might get something else he likes more. Or its simply one of the few things he can control in his world.

The toddler logic I can't get my head around is why the only veg DS likes (apart from baked beans) is difficult to eat corn on the cob, why his absolutely favourite food is rice and why such a fussy little sod LOVES curry, including curry hotter than I would eat. The only sandwich filling he will eat is helpfully the socially unacceptable peanut butter sandwich.

He won't eat ice cream in a cone, only in a bowl and he rarely eats chips.

OP posts:
expotition · 17/11/2017 18:24

The logic is if he refuses he might get something else he likes more. Or its simply one of the few things he can control in his world.

That doesn't actually sound a million miles away from our Brexit position...

woman11017 · 17/11/2017 18:26

I miss toddlers Smile never that I'd say that! Remember those food negotiations well. hashi and Red Took my youngest ex toddler driving today. Smile

HashiAsLarry · 17/11/2017 18:40

he rarely eats chips
My two don't like chippy chips. I sometimes wonder if they're mine Grin

exposition that's what I was thinking too. Especially after tonight's conversation with ds as to what he wanted for dinner tonight. I want Ice cream. You need to have dinner first. Ice cream. You can't have ice cream for dinner. But I want Ice cream. If you have dinner, then maybe you can have ice cream. Cue mini tantrum. And no ice cream in the end, though he did actually eat dinner but had exhausted himself too much to have any dessert.

AgnesSkinner · 17/11/2017 18:41

Both my toddlers went months eating the same dinner every night, mainly because I wasn’t going to get into protracted negotiations over unreasonable demands.

They’re both strapping teenagers now that eat anything (in vast quantities unfortunately).

RedToothBrush · 17/11/2017 18:46

Food is DS's big thing.

Remember those food negotiations well

Its not a negotiation! Its a choice. You can not force a toddler to eat. You can only offer them a range of options you have available. If they decide that done of those choices are to their taste, then they go hungry. You can only do so much to persuade them differently. The toddler ultimately still needs to eat and eventually they will crack, though they might find that ice cream or chocolate has been replaced by carrots and peas. Or worse.

As for DS, meal times are the only real issue we have and we deliberately don't make it into a battleground. Its up to him. As far as toddlers go, he's easy and very rarely cries. A lot of parents would kill for it. The only other thing he's bad for is he won't go to sleep by himself yet and instead demands cuddles until he does. Oh the hardship. I am enjoying it whilst I can, and feel sorry for parents with sleepers!

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2017 18:48

Full text of DD speech to the Suddeutsche Zeitung Economic Summit$

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/david-davis-speech-to-the-suddeutsche-zeitung-economic-summit

BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2017 18:49

Of course that doesn't show DD's useless answers to the questions posed afterwards

RedToothBrush · 17/11/2017 19:00

Sometimes twitter juxtaposes completely separate observations in the most perfect way.

Tweet 1

Alex Andreou‏ @sturdyAlex
Okay, then peeps. LONG THREAD. Put down your union flag for a moment and just take some information in. I will try to explain the approaching #Brexit nightmare using a single, calm, factual example, so far largely ignored. I urge you to think, share and talk about this. Ready?

The UK has no structures or agency of its own for approving and licensing medicines. It relies almost exclusively on the European Medicines Agency. The MHRA is an ancillary organisation. In precisely 15 months UK access to the EMA ends; abruptly if the "no deal" voices prevail.

Where are the UK's preparations for replacing this vital framework? The answer is: Non-existent. Not even embryonic. Just a statement by Hunt this summer that the UK "will look to continue to work closely” with the EMA, but we're ready "to establish our own system if necessary".

The EU started planning to relocate the EMA (currently in London) the week after Art50 was notified to much tabloid chagrin, the idea that EU agencies should be located in the EU having come as a shock. That's just RELOCATING. We, who actually need to REPLACE it, have done nowt.

Having worked for a similarly sized gov't agency for most my professional life, I estimate that in order to "establish our own system" and have everything in place to take over March 2019, we needed to have started two years ago. And even that would be tight. I'm deadly serious.

The setting up will require complex, technical, primary legislation, which will be hotly contested between strong counter-pulling lobbies and interests (big pharma, NHS, patient groups, ethics cmtees) and require extensive consultation, expert advice and debate.

Only at THAT point, can you start looking for a CEO, a board, expert staff, support, training, a building etc. In all honesty, 15 months isn't even enough time if you were ONLY looking at the recruitment of such technical staff. Especially in such a niche area.

Then there's cost. Even by Eurosceptic estimates the UK pays a fifth of an agency like the EMA. It would need to set up the UK equivalent for a fifth of the cost just to break even. This is fantasy of course.
Testing, assessing and licensing a new drug is inelastic, cost-wise.

This exposes the myth of "saving lots of money by leaving the EU". Much of the money we paid was to centralise essential tasks, like the medicines regime, with huge efficiency and time savings. Not dealing with multiple authorities also reduces costs for pharma cos, ergo prices.

This simple example also puts to bed any "they need us more than we need them" nonsense. Yes, we are an important contributor to the EU. Yes we are also an important market. They want us, for sure. But we need them. Structurally. Desperately. Not forever, but certainly now.

The day the UK leaves, everything in the EU27 will function PRECISELY as it does now. Money will be tighter. Some of their sectors will face challenges. But none of their rules or processes change. They face no transition. We do -in a myriad ways- and are totally unprepared.

Because medicines is only one of a 100 such regimes that need replacing which will fall on the same unfathomably stretched civil service to do; the same exhausted people trying to also do the other 99 things, as well as renegotiate 700 treaties, on TOP of their ordinary duties.

So, what happens if there's "no deal", in this, as in a thousand other areas for which the UK has simply made NO preparations? This isn't fluff. It's life and death. Sick people will end up waiting for years for available treatments, stuck in a bottleneck of unapproved meds.

Does your faith and patriotism have the magical power to make technical legislation and multidisciplinary agencies just spring into being? Is it unpatriotic to raise the #Brexit alarm or quite the reverse?

Am I a remoaner for thinking about this? Or are you a fool for not?

END

PS. Please understand: I'm not suggesting that leaving the EU is impossible. I'm saying it is impossible to do without major trauma, within such an insanely short timeframe, especially for a govt that seems unaware of the complicated fallout and uninterested in mapping it out.

To those whose central argument seems to be "we did perfectly well before the EU, therefore it can't be difficult to leave it" I say:

Switch off your mobile phone and your internet for a week and keep telling yourself "I did without them not so long ago; this should be easy."

Tweet 2

The DM Reporter‏*@DMReporter*
MEANWHILE: In the Science section, Mail writer Harry Pettit concludes his epic 11 month investigation of vital importance.

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
OP posts:
woman11017 · 17/11/2017 19:17

@SebDance
Literally every one that has come to see me. Admittedly those who don’t probably wouldn’t come to see me. But these sectors have so far: automotive, medicine research, aerospace, farming, universities, retail, banking, energy, environmental NGOs, consumer protection, construction

@mattpoole2011
Loads of industries are trying to get exemption from brexit.

Mightybanhammer · 17/11/2017 19:32

David Miliband great on Brexit on c 4 this eve.

RhiannonOHara · 17/11/2017 19:32

On what, Mighty?

Mightybanhammer · 17/11/2017 19:54

He was asked how foreign govts viewed us and was very eloquent and sad in his response.

Mightybanhammer · 17/11/2017 19:55

Sorry Blush on channel 4 news

BestIsWest · 17/11/2017 20:29

I’ve been wondering if things would have been different if Ed hadn’t beaten David. Pointless I know. A little alternative fantasy.

OlennasWimple · 17/11/2017 21:35

DD's "friends" say that he might quit because civil servants are "freezing him out" Hmm

The freezing out seems to be that Boris and Gove (or Hove, as the Telegraph's terrible copy has it) didn't share their letter to TM with him. How this is the civil servants' fault, and not the fault of a fractured and dysfunctional cabinet, I have no idea

BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2017 21:59

I suspect that since May moved Oliver Robbins - who never got on with DD - into the No. 10 office,
Robbins has been beavering away quietly and actually getting some intelligent work done

DD doesn't have the knowledge, experience or work ethic to keep up with someone who is actually doing the job
So, he has fallen increasingly behind the curve and doesn't know what is goong on.

They aren't freezing him out
His numerous faults mean he is unable to keep up with those actually doing the job

OlennasWimple · 17/11/2017 22:01

Your analysis sounds spot on, BigChoc

BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2017 22:02

Whatever chance the Uk has of getting an acceptable deal - which would still require at least the 2 year extension to achieve - lies solely with the senior civil servants quietly working their guts out behind the scenes.

DD is no help in this; in fact to date he has been a clear hinderance, fantasist and obscurantor

SwedishEdith · 17/11/2017 22:47

Davis looked knackered and bloated when Kuenssberg interviewed him today. I still think he's the only one who could say this won't work.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/11/2017 00:08

Politically yes, DD or Boris are the only ones with sufficient clout to shift public opinion really significantly

But is DD any more willing than Boris to admit to cocking things up ?
All the present govt are acting only in the interests of their party and their own career within the party
DD is sufficiently old now - and clapped out / sozzled / bone idle - that he may feel he has little career to lose

However, he is too ignorant, arrogant and conceited to realise when he has made massive mistakes, let alone admit to this publicly
I suppose he could claim that the EU "put politics first" so that the cake deal won't work adn jt must be EEA / EFTA/