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Brexit

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again. A Big Battle Looms.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2017 13:56

Today has seen the publication of a story about how Johnson and Gove are holding May hostage in a ‘soft coup’ and have made various demands over what they want for a hard Brexit. The letter which was for May’s and Barwell’s eyes only has some how leaked. Don’t forget how Gove has just joined the Brexit Cabinet.

It comes at a time, when the Observer is also leading with an editorial demanding Johnson goes over his handling of the Nazarin Zagheri-Ratcliffe case as well as his long list of poorly judged comments which have had diplomatic consequences and another newspaper is leading with a story about how 40 Tories are ready to no-confidence May.

It all smacks of a personal battle between May and Johnson to govern the party, which has been playing out publicly for some time, most noticeable in the parallel Tory party conference leadership speeches and Johnson’s freelancing.

Johnson also seems to be potentially caught up, with what happens in the Mueller investigation due to a photo and lying about having met Misfud which could be politically damaging.

Priti Patel’s –sacking-- resignation also fits in neatly with the story. The Foreign Office were not informed and there is the curious side story that May DID know various details but told Patel to keep quiet, so not to embarrass the FCO. Or more to the point, be seen to be undermining Johnson.

Whether this is true or not we don’t know. It does have implications if its true, but it also says something if its not too. Why leak the story at all? Once again its about the Johnson v May dynamic.

As it stands, if Gove and Johnson have been leading May then why would they decide to ditch her and go for power without her?
Notably Gove has the best satisfaction scores of the Cabinet amongst Tories on Conservative Home too. He has had a lot of favourable comments over his statements over pesticides. The pair seem to have put differences aside and are working together. And May has become more and more of a liability. Johnson, also came second favourite to be Tory leader amongst Tories (if you discount don’t knows and none of the aboves). Maybe they fancy their chances…

Or it’s a last ditch attempt to cling on to that power as threats that Johnson might finally get the boot – if Zagheri-Ratcliffe does have her sentence extended and Johnson’s position is no longer tenable for even May’s self-preservation. Whilst much has been framed about it being about May’s political survival, its definitely not just her whose future is in doubt. Who was the ‘dead wood’, that young Tories demanded be ditched in a reshuffle to bring in young blood? Either way, Gove has firmly hitched his wagon to Johnson's effectively repeating Johnson's dismissal of Zagheri-Ratcliffe's case.

Anyway another week and another set of high political drama is a foregone conclusion.

A round up of other developments this week:

Tory Party / Government

  1. May announces intention to enshrine Brexit leaving date in law to force rebels to tow the line. This has many implications, not least tax related and putting more pressure on the UK government. It’s generally regarded as a desperate move by anyone sane.
  2. The Impact Assessments were a dogs dinner that was done at the last minute, and were not worth the paper they were written on. There was no detail to them.
  3. Priti Patel’s –sacking—resignation after having undocumented and unauthorised meetings with a series of Israel ministers. And then lying about it.
  4. Penny Mordaunt, who lied about the UK not having a veto to stop Turkey joining the EU, replaced Patel.
  5. Damien Green Porn. Another ex-policeman is backing the story that it was found on his computer despite Green’s denials.
  6. The ongoing Zagheri-Ratcliffe story with Iran and Johnson’s gaff and none apology
  7. Photograph of Johnson with ‘The Professor’ Misfud has been found. This links Johnson to how events in the US might pan out. If there are lots more revelations in the Mueller inquiry about him, then that might reflect on Johnson and make him subject to some difficult questions. Politically this might be problematic for Johnson.
  8. Claims that the whips office leaked the name of someone who reported allegations against Nigel Evans which occurred 6 months after Evans had been cleared of rape and the sexual assault of six men
  9. Suspended Tory MP Charlie Elphicke has complained that he is yet to be informed of what he has been accused of.
  10. Young Tory MPs issue threat to May that she brings in young blood and gets rid of ‘dead wood, who do nothing but screw up’. Give her until the New Year to do so.
  11. 40 Tories apparently ready to no confidence May.
  12. Lord Ashcroft’s latest poll reveals a very small percentage of people want a no deal situation despite all the noise of it being a good idea.
  13. Lord Ashcroft mentioned in the Paradise papers. Reported as domiciled in Belize despite assurances given to parliament that he would give up his non-dom status and pay tax in the UK as a Lord.

Parliament / Opposition both inside and outside parliament
14) May facing a possible revolt over Universal Credit. MPs due to vote on reducing wait times.
15) Talk that there are enough Tory Rebels prepared to back a Dominic Grieve amendment to force a meaningful vote on the Brexit Deal.
16) May under increasing pressure from business leaders to make a deal after a meeting with them at no. 10.
17) Lots of distraction in the Paradise Papers generally which raises the question over the power and influence of the super rich versus the poor. This plays well to Labour’s narrative and against the idea of a low tax post Brexit Britain.
18) Lord Kerr, author of the a50 clause states that May has misled the public and insists that it is reversible.
19) New Money Laundering and Sanctions Bill in the Lords. Government looking to omit 4th EU directive on tax avoidance. Naturally raises questions about whether UK would adopt new rules due to come into force the week after Brexit Day.
20) Money Laundering Bill also has lots of overlap with immigration and home office operations, raising some rather sinister questions over who could be affected and why. Potential for abuse seems to be huge.
21) Leave leaning Cornwall and Grimsby seeking special status in the face of Brexit – in line with remaining to preserve business / economic interests
22) Suicide of Welsh Assembly Labour member who was under investigation for sexual harassment
23) A Labour MP accuses the already suspended fellow Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins of inappropriate behaviour.

EU
24) Ireland demands the UK stays in the customs union.
25) Brexit talks have not progressed at all despite apparently being speeded up. Barnier saying that progress in December only possible if UK makes moves on the settlement deal. Prospect of stage two being delayed until March being raised. This leaves just 7 months to come to a deal, which plays to the No Deal Crowd’s interests.
26) EU believe the UK are not working in the best interests of the UK and there is a failure by May and Davis to understand the process or what No Deal will mean.
27) EU signalling that there is no bespoke transition. Only available options ae EEA or EFTA fudges.
28) Increasing view in Brussels that No Deal likely. EU think May hasn’t got the authority to come to a deal and its easier for her to drag UK off the cliff. Though they have doubts she will survive much longer.

World
29) Trump sides with Putin above the US Intelligence Community over the Russian election interference. On Veterans Day.
30) US’s Wilbur Ross said UK will have to dump European food safety standards and that losing our passporting rights to the EU would harm our interests with the US.
31) Developments in Lebanon, with it being said that Saudi Arabia said to have declared war. Many would consider this to be a proxy war against Iran. Crown Prince has purged political opponents including several with significant Wall Street interests. Eight died in a helicopter crash.
32) Large scale far right march in Poland as part of their Independence Day.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
50
AgnesSkinner · 17/11/2017 13:01

I’m guessing that ROI worked hard within the EU to get the border as one of the Phase I issues, and the Brexiteers have significantly underestimated the determination of the Irish Government.

Peregrina · 17/11/2017 13:18

I think the Brexiteers (the Davis, Fox, Johnson, Redwood etc. not ordinary folk) really hope that Ireland will solve the problem by leaving the EU. I am quite sure that this is wishful thinking because I see that Varadkar is standing firm.

I really think that British politicians are nothing like as well appraised of NI/Irish politics as they should be.

On a side note, someone recommended one of Edward Rutherfurd's books. My library didn't have that particular book, but did have his 'Ireland Awakening' which is a novel going into the history of Ireland from Cromwell to the Easter rising, which gave a lot of background information about the Ireland.

Peregrina · 17/11/2017 13:19

About Ireland, or Irish history - I got a bit confused when typing. This is one of the best novels I have read recently.

usuallydormant · 17/11/2017 13:23

Yes, there was a huge amount of lobbying going on in Brussels and I guess this is where the strong Irish relationship with the EU and network came into play. Getting Ireland on that list was a great result.

Plus, Ireland has been a good EU pupil. It's one of the success stories and took its medicine more or less quietly after the bailout was imposed and is on the way up again. The rest of the EU is seeing a country that has struggled and made a success of itself post independence, thanks in great part to EU support, only to be kicked in the gut by its neighbour just as things seem to be looking up. I wouldn't underestimate the sympathy in Europe for Ireland. Protecting Ireland's interest is a good PR move for the EU if nothing else.

Also, Michel Barnier was directly involved in the GFA as a EU commissioner - he knows many of the issues around NI himself and is probably a hell of a lot more knowledgeable than Boris or DD.

Played a different way, the UK might have had RoI as an ally but it's clear the Brexiters can't be trusted on this issue.

RhiannonOHara · 17/11/2017 13:36

Seriously, Peregrina? You think they honestly think the ROI might just up and leave the EU to help out Brexit? I know it's almost not meaningful to say this any more, but… they'd have to be monumentally stupid to think that, surely?

Peregrina · 17/11/2017 13:46

You think they honestly think the ROI might just up and leave the EU to help out Brexit?

No, but I think that's what some of the right wing loonies in May's party would like to see. They would have to be monumentally stupid - they are monumentally stupid. I think I have seen a couple of them suggest it, and they hope that if they make enough noise they will get their way.

It's a bit like Farage agitating and agitating against the EU taking UKIP votes away from the Tories, and eventually Cameron appeasing his right wing because he was afraid of his BluKIP wing.

RhiannonOHara · 17/11/2017 13:48

They would have to be monumentally stupid - they are monumentally stupid.

Oh, I know. Grin I did kind of acknowledge that.
I think I have seen a couple of them suggest it. I've missed that but can believe it. FFS. So they are the kind of swivel-eyes TM is running scared of.

mybrainhurtsalot · 17/11/2017 13:49

I definitely remember some reports that brexiteers thought Ireland should leave too.

www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/07/ray-bassett-ireland-should-consider-following-britain-out-of-the-eu.html

woman11017 · 17/11/2017 13:59

some reports that brexiteers thought Ireland should leave too.
They've gone very quiet about Greece too.

Despite it all, and even though Ireland and Greece have had more than their share of financial woe, they are both still firmly in the EU.

HashiAsLarry · 17/11/2017 14:18

I reckon the eu feel it's like dealing with a toddler.

  • we need you to come up with a solution to the ni border
  • look, a kitty
  • ni border?
  • listen to me singing
  • still need a solution to the ni border
  • you do it
  • keeps banging head on table we need you to come up with a solution to the ni border
HashiAsLarry · 17/11/2017 14:18

I reckon the eu feel it's like dealing with a toddler.

  • we need you to come up with a solution to the ni border
  • look, a kitty
  • ni border?
  • listen to me singing
  • still need a solution to the ni border
  • you do it
  • keeps banging head on table we need you to come up with a solution to the ni border
RedToothBrush · 17/11/2017 14:37

So since this was tweeted earlier:

Henry Zeffman‏ @hzeffman
Downing Street adamant they won't drop exit date amendment. "What the amendment does is provide certainty over our position that we are leaving the EU on March 29, 2019. We would encourage all MPs to support it."

The Evening Standard have run this story:

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-latest-tory-rebels-torpedo-theresa-mays-plan-to-fix-leave-date-into-law-a3694036.html
Brexit latest: Tory rebels torpedo Theresa May's plan to fix leave date in law

In which it says:

Theresa May’s attempt to fix the Brexit date in law was falling apart today as MPs said more than 25 Tories were ready to join a massive Commons rebellion.

Although No 10 flatly denied that a U-turn was in the offing, Brexit Secretary David Davis hinted that concessions were in the wind, saying: “Let’s see where we go.”

In a significant blow to the Prime Minister, the revolt was rapidly spreading beyond the prominent “Brexit mutineers” and being taken up by loyalists who do not usually rock the boat in public.

Mrs May’s own policy chief, MP George Freeman, warned that the number of rebels would rise to over 25 if ministers did not offer concessions. A former whip, Keith Simpson, was overheard telling the whips that he “would vote against it if I was not a loyalist” because it was such a stupid idea.

Its worth pointing out that the George Freeman tweet precedes the No 10 denial, so either No 10 have managed to get a compromise (and the Evening Standard is merely shit stirring) or No 10 are doubling down and insisting on this despite the warnings.

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Peregrina · 17/11/2017 14:40

I will believe the Tory rebellion when I see it. So far we have heard a lot of noise, but when it comes to the vote they dutifully trot through the Govt lobby. With the honourable exception of Ken Clarke.

missmoon · 17/11/2017 16:26

For what it's worth, from speaking to Irish colleagues and friends, and travelling around Ireland, there is zero chance of Ireland choosing to leave the EU.

Lico · 17/11/2017 16:34

Totally agree with you Petegrina

pointythings · 17/11/2017 16:36

The sense I get is that when push comes to shove, most of them will still choose party over country.

OlennasWimple · 17/11/2017 16:40

Toddler UK: But I want to have a hard border with another country but be part of a customs union!

Adult EU: But that doesn't work - it's contradictory?

Toddler UK: Does too!

Adult EU: Sorry, no, it doesn't

Toddler EU: I That's not fair! You are mean, it's all your fault!

woman11017 · 17/11/2017 16:54

Did anyone see this on Channel 4 news, not sure if it's been posted. The regretful leaver fishermen of Grimsby. The numbers needed to swing over are so small.
www.channel4.com/news/leave-voting-grimsby-accused-of-double-standards

And Arron Banks:

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
Lico · 17/11/2017 16:59

Sorry, Peregrina not Petegrina!

woman11017 · 17/11/2017 17:08

The plot to stop Brexit How Remainers of all parties are planning to keep the UK in the EU – and why they believe they will win
www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2017/11/plot-stop-brexit

Interesting alliance of Umunna, Grieve, Morgan, Clegg and Soubry.

RedToothBrush · 17/11/2017 17:15

My toddler isn't that bad.

Most toddlers are extremely logical. It might be different logic to adults but its logical.

They kick off, when you can't give a reply that isn't logical to them.

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RedToothBrush · 17/11/2017 17:23

Faisal Islam‏ @faisalislam
NEW: Taoiseach @campaignforleo speaks to @skynews @lewis_goodall and @zachjourno
“I wouldn’t say a deal is close.. “
Varadkar tells Sky News "I cant say with any honesty that it's close either on the Irish issue or the financial settlement"
“after 40 years of marriage, most of them good, Britain wants a divorce and wants an open relationship the day after” - difficult position
Taoiseach: “I’m not in the business of threatening vetos... but we have a national interest here at stake.. >
“it would be very difficult for us to accept anything other that a written commitment that the British government means what it says”
Varadkar: “after 18 months, 18 months since the referendum, 10 years since people started agitating for it, and yet to see anything in b&w”
Irish leader pretty incredulous about fact we are 18 months on from referendum with promises but no concrete UK plan for keeping border open

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
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RedToothBrush · 17/11/2017 17:36

Given the UK seem to be incapable of putting anything into writing oer Brexit, I'm not holding my breathe.

Its a reasonable request by Ireland.

OP posts:
woman11017 · 17/11/2017 17:37

it would be very difficult for us to accept anything other that a written commitment that the British government means what it says
Yike a doodle dandy.

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