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Brexit

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again. A Big Battle Looms.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2017 13:56

Today has seen the publication of a story about how Johnson and Gove are holding May hostage in a ‘soft coup’ and have made various demands over what they want for a hard Brexit. The letter which was for May’s and Barwell’s eyes only has some how leaked. Don’t forget how Gove has just joined the Brexit Cabinet.

It comes at a time, when the Observer is also leading with an editorial demanding Johnson goes over his handling of the Nazarin Zagheri-Ratcliffe case as well as his long list of poorly judged comments which have had diplomatic consequences and another newspaper is leading with a story about how 40 Tories are ready to no-confidence May.

It all smacks of a personal battle between May and Johnson to govern the party, which has been playing out publicly for some time, most noticeable in the parallel Tory party conference leadership speeches and Johnson’s freelancing.

Johnson also seems to be potentially caught up, with what happens in the Mueller investigation due to a photo and lying about having met Misfud which could be politically damaging.

Priti Patel’s –sacking-- resignation also fits in neatly with the story. The Foreign Office were not informed and there is the curious side story that May DID know various details but told Patel to keep quiet, so not to embarrass the FCO. Or more to the point, be seen to be undermining Johnson.

Whether this is true or not we don’t know. It does have implications if its true, but it also says something if its not too. Why leak the story at all? Once again its about the Johnson v May dynamic.

As it stands, if Gove and Johnson have been leading May then why would they decide to ditch her and go for power without her?
Notably Gove has the best satisfaction scores of the Cabinet amongst Tories on Conservative Home too. He has had a lot of favourable comments over his statements over pesticides. The pair seem to have put differences aside and are working together. And May has become more and more of a liability. Johnson, also came second favourite to be Tory leader amongst Tories (if you discount don’t knows and none of the aboves). Maybe they fancy their chances…

Or it’s a last ditch attempt to cling on to that power as threats that Johnson might finally get the boot – if Zagheri-Ratcliffe does have her sentence extended and Johnson’s position is no longer tenable for even May’s self-preservation. Whilst much has been framed about it being about May’s political survival, its definitely not just her whose future is in doubt. Who was the ‘dead wood’, that young Tories demanded be ditched in a reshuffle to bring in young blood? Either way, Gove has firmly hitched his wagon to Johnson's effectively repeating Johnson's dismissal of Zagheri-Ratcliffe's case.

Anyway another week and another set of high political drama is a foregone conclusion.

A round up of other developments this week:

Tory Party / Government

  1. May announces intention to enshrine Brexit leaving date in law to force rebels to tow the line. This has many implications, not least tax related and putting more pressure on the UK government. It’s generally regarded as a desperate move by anyone sane.
  2. The Impact Assessments were a dogs dinner that was done at the last minute, and were not worth the paper they were written on. There was no detail to them.
  3. Priti Patel’s –sacking—resignation after having undocumented and unauthorised meetings with a series of Israel ministers. And then lying about it.
  4. Penny Mordaunt, who lied about the UK not having a veto to stop Turkey joining the EU, replaced Patel.
  5. Damien Green Porn. Another ex-policeman is backing the story that it was found on his computer despite Green’s denials.
  6. The ongoing Zagheri-Ratcliffe story with Iran and Johnson’s gaff and none apology
  7. Photograph of Johnson with ‘The Professor’ Misfud has been found. This links Johnson to how events in the US might pan out. If there are lots more revelations in the Mueller inquiry about him, then that might reflect on Johnson and make him subject to some difficult questions. Politically this might be problematic for Johnson.
  8. Claims that the whips office leaked the name of someone who reported allegations against Nigel Evans which occurred 6 months after Evans had been cleared of rape and the sexual assault of six men
  9. Suspended Tory MP Charlie Elphicke has complained that he is yet to be informed of what he has been accused of.
  10. Young Tory MPs issue threat to May that she brings in young blood and gets rid of ‘dead wood, who do nothing but screw up’. Give her until the New Year to do so.
  11. 40 Tories apparently ready to no confidence May.
  12. Lord Ashcroft’s latest poll reveals a very small percentage of people want a no deal situation despite all the noise of it being a good idea.
  13. Lord Ashcroft mentioned in the Paradise papers. Reported as domiciled in Belize despite assurances given to parliament that he would give up his non-dom status and pay tax in the UK as a Lord.

Parliament / Opposition both inside and outside parliament
14) May facing a possible revolt over Universal Credit. MPs due to vote on reducing wait times.
15) Talk that there are enough Tory Rebels prepared to back a Dominic Grieve amendment to force a meaningful vote on the Brexit Deal.
16) May under increasing pressure from business leaders to make a deal after a meeting with them at no. 10.
17) Lots of distraction in the Paradise Papers generally which raises the question over the power and influence of the super rich versus the poor. This plays well to Labour’s narrative and against the idea of a low tax post Brexit Britain.
18) Lord Kerr, author of the a50 clause states that May has misled the public and insists that it is reversible.
19) New Money Laundering and Sanctions Bill in the Lords. Government looking to omit 4th EU directive on tax avoidance. Naturally raises questions about whether UK would adopt new rules due to come into force the week after Brexit Day.
20) Money Laundering Bill also has lots of overlap with immigration and home office operations, raising some rather sinister questions over who could be affected and why. Potential for abuse seems to be huge.
21) Leave leaning Cornwall and Grimsby seeking special status in the face of Brexit – in line with remaining to preserve business / economic interests
22) Suicide of Welsh Assembly Labour member who was under investigation for sexual harassment
23) A Labour MP accuses the already suspended fellow Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins of inappropriate behaviour.

EU
24) Ireland demands the UK stays in the customs union.
25) Brexit talks have not progressed at all despite apparently being speeded up. Barnier saying that progress in December only possible if UK makes moves on the settlement deal. Prospect of stage two being delayed until March being raised. This leaves just 7 months to come to a deal, which plays to the No Deal Crowd’s interests.
26) EU believe the UK are not working in the best interests of the UK and there is a failure by May and Davis to understand the process or what No Deal will mean.
27) EU signalling that there is no bespoke transition. Only available options ae EEA or EFTA fudges.
28) Increasing view in Brussels that No Deal likely. EU think May hasn’t got the authority to come to a deal and its easier for her to drag UK off the cliff. Though they have doubts she will survive much longer.

World
29) Trump sides with Putin above the US Intelligence Community over the Russian election interference. On Veterans Day.
30) US’s Wilbur Ross said UK will have to dump European food safety standards and that losing our passporting rights to the EU would harm our interests with the US.
31) Developments in Lebanon, with it being said that Saudi Arabia said to have declared war. Many would consider this to be a proxy war against Iran. Crown Prince has purged political opponents including several with significant Wall Street interests. Eight died in a helicopter crash.
32) Large scale far right march in Poland as part of their Independence Day.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
50
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/11/2017 23:30

Heather Stewart
@GuardianHeather
Brexit rebel Dominic Grieve to be reappointed to Intelligence and Security Committee despite being thorn in the government’s side.

Grieve to be joined by Labour’s Caroline Flint, Kevan Jones, David Hanson; SNP’s Ian Blackford; Conservatives Keith Simpson, Richard Benyon.

May announced at #PMQs the ISC would (finally) be appointed. With claims of Russian interference in referendum, lots to investigate.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/11/2017 23:42

I don’t know if this is statically sound but

Landmark study links Tory austerity to 120,000 deaths

The Government has been accused of 'economic murder'

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/tory-austerity-deaths-study-report-people-die-social-care-government-policy-a8057306.html?amp

woman11017 · 16/11/2017 07:48

I don’t know if this is statically sound
The article is a wee bit nuanced about it Pain. Comparing it to Portugal's death rate under cuts. But when did britain's death rates due to social services cuts have to be compared to Portugal ( no offence to beautiful Portugal)

But add in those in Grenfell to those stats. Sad

Remember all the 'posters' complaining about the Soviet bloc of EU and NATO?

Those views didn't from those who had studied history in english schools during the last 30 years.

I do recognise some of those views from military personnel in my own family. I reckon military cuts fed into this stuff too.

@acgrayling
We are undergoing a coup. There should be millions on the streets.

@DavidLammy
Just voted to protect employment rights, environmental protections, equalities, health and safety and consumer rights post-Brexit. Govnt voted our amendment down.

woman11017 · 16/11/2017 08:09

Leave UK:

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
LurkingHusband · 16/11/2017 08:32

Priti Patel's first comment in the HoC - from the backbenches - since her resignation:

"I don’t think we should listen to, really, those that simply do not have the confidence in this House, in our democracy and also in our country going forward, along with the suggestions that we are incapable of governing ourselves. Fundamentally, we should be rejecting that.”

Sounds like a call for a vote of confidence then ?

Motheroffourdragons · 16/11/2017 08:59

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BiglyBadgers · 16/11/2017 09:09

Do we know who actually runs leave.uk Twitter because they spew some seriously grim and vile crap? Angry

woman11017 · 16/11/2017 09:15

They're based in Bristol, bigly. That tweet's been taken down mother but the threatening one to Carole Cadwalladr is still up. Banks alluded to Russian journalists being eliminated in another tweet.
Just seems toxic, is all. Parliamentary shenanigans can't fix that, unfortunately.
Right I'll shut up about it now.

RedToothBrush · 16/11/2017 09:22

The way they have done the economic deaths doesn't look dissimilar to how they calculate seasonal deaths.

Seasonal death figures are fairly well accepted and believed and they have been used for many years.

Its difficult to say conclusively that its anything more than speculative, but I would say that given there is a recognition of the value of figures that are done in a similar fashion these figures should be taken more seriously than they will be and they certainly should not be disregarded.

It should be taken along side known factors like the increase in waiting list times.

How figures like unemployment and the number on benefits have been manipulated over the last few years is another clue - it is trying to disguise something - its a deliberate action for known purpose.

Anyway. Brexit.

This is special:

Faisal Islam‏ @faisalislam
Today’s highly critical Home Affairs Committee @CommonsHomeAffs report on insufficient plan for post-Brexit customs:
publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmhaff/540/540.pdf
The long and short of it is this:
Are customs arrangements going to change in March 2019? Govt thinks it can negotiate no/v small change...
..at least for a transition - if not, then agencies, hauliers, exporters, importers need to know and plan for this change about now or chaos
Unless Govt plans with no deal/transition simply not to have customs checks cos can’t be enforced - kind of one way semi permeable cell wall
Meanwhile this: plan to lead to existing traffic chaos pre-Brexit /Operation Stack with a Disneyland size lorry park has had to be canned

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 16/11/2017 09:37

Sarah O'Connor‏ @sarahoconnor_
What happens to a place after it's left behind by the modern economy? In Blackpool, a quietly unfolding health disaster. But - in the face of necessity - people on the ground are trying new ideas to turn things around. #longread by @jburnmurdoch and me

www.ft.com/content/b6dbf34e-c987-11e7-aa33-c63fdc9b8c6c
Left behind: can anyone save the towns the economy forgot?
Soaring antidepressant usage, falling life expectancy: Blackpool embodies much of what is going wrong on the fringes of Britain

Similar to the article about austerity deaths above. It talks about doctors diagnosing “Shit Life Syndrome”

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
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AgnesSkinner · 16/11/2017 09:53

Customs report in full here.

Conclusion:

We were not satisfied with the answers we received to a vitally important question about planning for post-Brexit customs arrangements: who is in charge? The Government’s approach seems to us to lack focus, urgency and above all leadership. Any progress seems to rely on working groups of government officials, with no meaningful ministerial leadership. This is particularly worrying given that the costs involved would appear to be significantly higher than the existing Brexit contingency funding requested by the Home Office and even higher than the total envisaged by the Prime Minister for the whole Government.

Oops.

woman11017 · 16/11/2017 09:53

@carolecadwalla
Finally. 42 long hours later. The @LeaveEUOfficial video comes down.
It's not ok to hit a woman. It's not ok to threaten journalists. It's not ok to get away with it. They did. Smile

Some good points here:
@mikegalsworthy
If you talk to a Leave voter who's turning against Brexit - don't bash them ffs.
www.pscp.tv/w/1dRKZbkerRrKB

'Remainer Now' : for those who voted leave, and have had second thoughts:

twitter.com/StopBrexit17

RedToothBrush · 16/11/2017 09:57

In reference to this tweet:
BrexitCentral‏*@BrexitCentral*
Priti Patel on opposition to the EU Withdrawal Bill from the Labour benches: “They may want to be governed by the EU, because they feel unable to govern themselves.”
twitter.com/BrexitCentral/status/930839226391977985

Simon Cox‏*@SimonFRCox*
Really positive development: Hard Brexiters are re-arguing EUreferendum. Thread. 1/
Since EURef, HdBxtrs have fought to not debate merits of Brexit: using practical & rhetorical obstacles & threats 2/
HBs fight to prevent serious debate: no Parlty vote on A50 (Miller defeated), no disclosure of negot position (EU disclosed 3/
... & Labour won Commons vote on impact assessments. No vote on final deal (Lab/Commons defeated). 4/
HBers use rhetoric & threats to fight against serious debate on Brexit too... /5
“Will of the people”, ‘you’ll be voted out’, “traitor”, “Hard Brexit is inevitable”. /6
Hard Brexiters have tried desperately to avoid debate because they don’t have credible answers. /7
So this new back-benchers intervention is important. Because she’s defending the MERITS of Brexit 8/
Patel isn’t just saying “you can’t stop Brexit”. She’s saying “Brexit is still a good idea”. As normal, she’s off-message. 9/
Patel’s argument for why Hard Brexit is good is repeat of Leave’s macho EURef rhetoric 10/
Patel’s argument signals “a proud, strong nation would never pool sovereignty”. It’s classic fascist reasoning. 11/
Opponents of Hard Brexit have worn down anti-democratic strategies. It’s still possible voters will defeat Brexit. 12/12

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 16/11/2017 10:04

Tim Berners Lee has a piece on the internet in the guardian this morning, talking about net neutrality

amp.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/15/tim-berners-lee-world-wide-web-net-neutrality

RedToothBrush · 16/11/2017 10:15

Oh Hello! What's this?!!!!

George Eaton‏ @georgeeaton
Nigel Farage privately believes UK should increase Brexit divorce payment to “probably” €50bn, reveals @Kevin_Maguire. Vital to “secure some form of continuity” transition, since “no deal” is “not a good outcome”.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/11/commons-confidential-nigel-farage-was-uncut-and-uncensored
Commons Confidential: Nigel Farage was uncut and uncensored

Garrulous Nigel Farage was uncut and uncensored when my Remainer snout sidled up for a casual chat at Lisbon’s Humberto Delgado Airport. I am reliably informed that the loquacious Brextremist endorsed the idea of the government raising a €20bn divorce offer closer to “probably” €50bn because it is vital to “secure some form of continuity” transition, since “no deal” is “not a good outcome”. Farage’s advice is to use the Italians to bypass the French and Germans. Oh, and another referendum is unnecessary but not undemocratic. Intriguing.

and

Back to the Ukip motormouth in Portugal. Farage was contemptuous of two Tory Brextremists, dismissing Priti Patel as “inexperienced in politics” and Boris Johnson as “not suited for politics”. The Foreign Secretary, he said, would be a better university professor. Unless Johnson secures Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s release, he may well be looking for another job soon.

About that:

Tom Newton Dunn‏ @tnewtondunn
Excl: Boris preparing to pay long standing £450m debt to Iran that will help free Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe;
www.thesun.co.uk/news/4923596/britain-450m-imprisoned-iran/
Britain preparing to pay a long standing £450m debt to Iran that will help free Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe
Boris Johnson and Philip Hammondauthorise government lawyers to finally settle the 38 year-long dispute over a tank deal

Jo Maugham QC‏ @JolyonMaugham
£1bn to keep Theresa in Downing Street; £450m to keep Boris at the Foreign Office. What a heavy price we pay for their incompetence.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 16/11/2017 10:41

All that coupled with this from yesterday:

Manfred Weber‏ @ManfredWeber
^Meeting with PM @theresa_may in 10 Downing Street today.
My impression is that progress in the #Brexit talks is possible. There is a willingness for compromise.^

Faisal Islam‏ @faisalislam
Manfred Weber has had his mind changed after meeting PM, Davis and Rudd today. Progress now “possible” rather than “unlikely”...

Bloomberg‏ @business
German lawmaker Manfred Weber is throwing Theresa May a bone
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-15/hawkish-ally-of-merkel-met-may-and-struck-a-positive-brexit-note?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
Hawkish Merkel Ally Meets May, Strikes a Positive Brexit Note

After meeting with the British leader in London on Wednesday, Manfred Weber said that “he saw today that there is a willingness to go further, there is a willingness to contribute to a positive outcome.” He added that the U.K. has a “credible” position and that “there are good arguments on the table from both sides.”

That was the carrot. Then came the stick.

“If somebody is leaving the club he has to pay the open bill,” he told an audience during a question-and-answer session. “I see the will to talk about the issues. I don’t want to comment what she told me in the private dialogue, but I see that it’s clear there are points on the table. Their understanding of what sufficient progress means is on the same line.”

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
Weber is an important voice - in Whitehall Germany seen as most hardline in Brexit negotiations so his meeting with PM later is important

Another point here: If Farage is really saying that privately behind closed doors then that makes him less hardline than Gove and Johnson and a number of other hard line Brexiteers in the Cabinet who are STILL pushing for no deal behind closed doors.

Farage is unlikely to say it publically as he can still make political mileage from doing so. If the report above is genuine, the Farage has a more realistic and better understanding than Johnson and Gove of the reality and consequences ahead.

That, is quite something and quite a turn up for the books.

Also, do we believe that Farage who is SO careful about what he says and how he says it, would have said that privately to someone who was both a journalist and a remainer, just so casually? Either its an outright and deliberate lie by the journalist OR Farage thinks Johnson and Gove are going too far and he really is worried about a no deal cliff edge brexit (for which he will share the blame and any resulting public backlash for of course) and needs to row back on that and send a message. He can use it as a 'get out clause' for the government fucking it up, if he needs to. Which is why, I suspect, Farage will neither confirm nor deny this rumour.

Belief in Brexit? Is it is falling apart? Is the penny dropping? Is the shit of reality hitting the fan?

You tell me, but there are some crackers in there.

Oh and remember this, that everyone is just trying to let be forgotten about:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42001259
What has happened to the Damian Green investigation?

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BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2017 11:39

I wonder if Farage is just worrying about his pension

  • in the event of no deal, maybe the EU could say then it is the responsibility of the UK to pay pensions for all UK civil servants & MEPs, past & present ? Hmm It would reduce the extra amount that the E27 would have to pony up and would be more politically acceptable in the EU than cutting payments to remaining members
RedToothBrush · 16/11/2017 12:56

Fawcett Society‏ @fawcettsociety
Some domestic violence charities get 40% of their income from EU funding. Government must report on how they will replicate this after Brexit. Tweet your MP asking if they will support amends 385 and NC77 by @jessphillips now!

I can't verify how accurate this claim is, but even if its not as high as this, it must be a significant percentage.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 16/11/2017 12:58

Alex Barker‏*@alexebarker*
Timeline from a Barnier presentation to 27 on transition/future relations talks. Note 1) transition guidelines only adopted in Feb, not Dec 2) no transition deal envisaged before Oct 2018. Suspect that may change

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
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Peregrina · 16/11/2017 13:00

On the Daily Politics programme I have just heard a Leaver say that we voted to leave the single market and the customs union. It went without challenge. I am sick and tired of being told that this is what we voted for - it wasn't the question on my ballot paper.

He glossed over the NI situation. It needs to be said that N Ireland is a special case - it's the only country of the UK where as a result of the GFA citizens born there are entitled to either British, Irish or dual nationality. Those Leavers who conveniently duck the NI issue and say e.g. what about Norway/Sweden are not comparing like with like. As far as I know, Norwegians are not entitled to Swedish Nationality or vice versa.

RedToothBrush · 16/11/2017 13:05

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/rupert-murdoch-newspapers-tremendously-damaged-digital-age-newscorp-twenty-first-century-fox-a8058321.html
Rupert Murdoch says his newspapers have been 'tremendously damaged' by the digital age
The 86-year-old media tycoon said he didn't have plans to buy more newspapers as 'Our hands are pretty full making our existing papers viable,'

OP posts:
ElenaGreco123 · 16/11/2017 13:06

Lost EU funding could be redirected to business, foundation policy director warns

15 November 2017 by Liam Kay

Duncan Shrubsole of the Lloyds Bank Foundation says the money guaranteed to charities by the government up to 2020 could instead be used to keep businesses and jobs in deprived areas

Charities that receive regional funding from the European Union could face losing future funding to local businesses after Brexit, charity trustees have been told.

Speaking at a session at the National Council for Voluntary Organisations’ trustee conference in London yesterday, Duncan Shrubsole, director of policy, partnerships and communications at the Lloyds Bank Foundation, said the economic ramifications of leaving the EU could mean that existing European Social Fund money was redirected towards the business sector.

About £200m in European Social Funding is handed out to charities in the UK each year and the government has guaranteed existing funding until 2020, although there is no definite guarantee for any funding after that time.

But Shrubsole warned that because the state of the public finances "remains rocky and the deficit remains high", it was possible that keeping businesses and jobs in deprived areas would be prioritised above the needs of local charities.

"Money that went out in regional funding that might have reached your charity is much less likely to," he said. "Even if it goes to, for example, south Wales, it is much more likely to be ‘please company A, stay in south Wales and don’t move to Germany, and here’s some money to help you stay’.

"Even if money goes to areas that it went to before, it is much less likely to reach charities. If you have lots of EU funding, it is unlikely to be around."

www.thirdsector.co.uk/lost-eu-funding-redirected-business-foundation-policy-director-warns/finance/article/1450227

OlennasWimple · 16/11/2017 14:07

mathanxiety - thanks for your thoughts on that Peter Hain article. You make a lot of good points. Personally I think calling TM to get deeply involved in NI is a terrible suggestion: she needs to demonstrate that she understands the issues (I sort of feel that after 6 years as Home Sec she surely must?? We just don't see the evidence). But she needs to focus on sorting out the omnishambles that is Brexit right now, and let Brokenshire try to get Stormont back on track

This clause was to ensure after exit day, EU derived rights relating to consumer standards, employment & more, can only be amended by primary legislation or legislation made under this Act.

In previous times I would have been reassuring pp that primary legislation isn't the be all and end all of protections, that secondary legislation would be sufficient (and more practical). But, we live in very odd times, and Parliament - and even democracy - isn't working how is it supposed to.

RedToothBrush · 16/11/2017 15:06

Laura Kuenssberg‏ @bbclaurak
Rumours doing the rounds that govt looking for a way of ditching the date amendment that well, doesn’t look like they are ditching the date amendment - nothing firm yet

Cracking! Today gets better and better on the Brexshit News. My second very loud laugh of the day.

Totally predictable. Unbelievable that May nailed herself to this one as firmly as she did!

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HashiAsLarry · 16/11/2017 16:13

Found that indirect link for you.

Phillip Mays company named in paradise papers