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Brexit

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again. A Big Battle Looms.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2017 13:56

Today has seen the publication of a story about how Johnson and Gove are holding May hostage in a ‘soft coup’ and have made various demands over what they want for a hard Brexit. The letter which was for May’s and Barwell’s eyes only has some how leaked. Don’t forget how Gove has just joined the Brexit Cabinet.

It comes at a time, when the Observer is also leading with an editorial demanding Johnson goes over his handling of the Nazarin Zagheri-Ratcliffe case as well as his long list of poorly judged comments which have had diplomatic consequences and another newspaper is leading with a story about how 40 Tories are ready to no-confidence May.

It all smacks of a personal battle between May and Johnson to govern the party, which has been playing out publicly for some time, most noticeable in the parallel Tory party conference leadership speeches and Johnson’s freelancing.

Johnson also seems to be potentially caught up, with what happens in the Mueller investigation due to a photo and lying about having met Misfud which could be politically damaging.

Priti Patel’s –sacking-- resignation also fits in neatly with the story. The Foreign Office were not informed and there is the curious side story that May DID know various details but told Patel to keep quiet, so not to embarrass the FCO. Or more to the point, be seen to be undermining Johnson.

Whether this is true or not we don’t know. It does have implications if its true, but it also says something if its not too. Why leak the story at all? Once again its about the Johnson v May dynamic.

As it stands, if Gove and Johnson have been leading May then why would they decide to ditch her and go for power without her?
Notably Gove has the best satisfaction scores of the Cabinet amongst Tories on Conservative Home too. He has had a lot of favourable comments over his statements over pesticides. The pair seem to have put differences aside and are working together. And May has become more and more of a liability. Johnson, also came second favourite to be Tory leader amongst Tories (if you discount don’t knows and none of the aboves). Maybe they fancy their chances…

Or it’s a last ditch attempt to cling on to that power as threats that Johnson might finally get the boot – if Zagheri-Ratcliffe does have her sentence extended and Johnson’s position is no longer tenable for even May’s self-preservation. Whilst much has been framed about it being about May’s political survival, its definitely not just her whose future is in doubt. Who was the ‘dead wood’, that young Tories demanded be ditched in a reshuffle to bring in young blood? Either way, Gove has firmly hitched his wagon to Johnson's effectively repeating Johnson's dismissal of Zagheri-Ratcliffe's case.

Anyway another week and another set of high political drama is a foregone conclusion.

A round up of other developments this week:

Tory Party / Government

  1. May announces intention to enshrine Brexit leaving date in law to force rebels to tow the line. This has many implications, not least tax related and putting more pressure on the UK government. It’s generally regarded as a desperate move by anyone sane.
  2. The Impact Assessments were a dogs dinner that was done at the last minute, and were not worth the paper they were written on. There was no detail to them.
  3. Priti Patel’s –sacking—resignation after having undocumented and unauthorised meetings with a series of Israel ministers. And then lying about it.
  4. Penny Mordaunt, who lied about the UK not having a veto to stop Turkey joining the EU, replaced Patel.
  5. Damien Green Porn. Another ex-policeman is backing the story that it was found on his computer despite Green’s denials.
  6. The ongoing Zagheri-Ratcliffe story with Iran and Johnson’s gaff and none apology
  7. Photograph of Johnson with ‘The Professor’ Misfud has been found. This links Johnson to how events in the US might pan out. If there are lots more revelations in the Mueller inquiry about him, then that might reflect on Johnson and make him subject to some difficult questions. Politically this might be problematic for Johnson.
  8. Claims that the whips office leaked the name of someone who reported allegations against Nigel Evans which occurred 6 months after Evans had been cleared of rape and the sexual assault of six men
  9. Suspended Tory MP Charlie Elphicke has complained that he is yet to be informed of what he has been accused of.
  10. Young Tory MPs issue threat to May that she brings in young blood and gets rid of ‘dead wood, who do nothing but screw up’. Give her until the New Year to do so.
  11. 40 Tories apparently ready to no confidence May.
  12. Lord Ashcroft’s latest poll reveals a very small percentage of people want a no deal situation despite all the noise of it being a good idea.
  13. Lord Ashcroft mentioned in the Paradise papers. Reported as domiciled in Belize despite assurances given to parliament that he would give up his non-dom status and pay tax in the UK as a Lord.

Parliament / Opposition both inside and outside parliament
14) May facing a possible revolt over Universal Credit. MPs due to vote on reducing wait times.
15) Talk that there are enough Tory Rebels prepared to back a Dominic Grieve amendment to force a meaningful vote on the Brexit Deal.
16) May under increasing pressure from business leaders to make a deal after a meeting with them at no. 10.
17) Lots of distraction in the Paradise Papers generally which raises the question over the power and influence of the super rich versus the poor. This plays well to Labour’s narrative and against the idea of a low tax post Brexit Britain.
18) Lord Kerr, author of the a50 clause states that May has misled the public and insists that it is reversible.
19) New Money Laundering and Sanctions Bill in the Lords. Government looking to omit 4th EU directive on tax avoidance. Naturally raises questions about whether UK would adopt new rules due to come into force the week after Brexit Day.
20) Money Laundering Bill also has lots of overlap with immigration and home office operations, raising some rather sinister questions over who could be affected and why. Potential for abuse seems to be huge.
21) Leave leaning Cornwall and Grimsby seeking special status in the face of Brexit – in line with remaining to preserve business / economic interests
22) Suicide of Welsh Assembly Labour member who was under investigation for sexual harassment
23) A Labour MP accuses the already suspended fellow Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins of inappropriate behaviour.

EU
24) Ireland demands the UK stays in the customs union.
25) Brexit talks have not progressed at all despite apparently being speeded up. Barnier saying that progress in December only possible if UK makes moves on the settlement deal. Prospect of stage two being delayed until March being raised. This leaves just 7 months to come to a deal, which plays to the No Deal Crowd’s interests.
26) EU believe the UK are not working in the best interests of the UK and there is a failure by May and Davis to understand the process or what No Deal will mean.
27) EU signalling that there is no bespoke transition. Only available options ae EEA or EFTA fudges.
28) Increasing view in Brussels that No Deal likely. EU think May hasn’t got the authority to come to a deal and its easier for her to drag UK off the cliff. Though they have doubts she will survive much longer.

World
29) Trump sides with Putin above the US Intelligence Community over the Russian election interference. On Veterans Day.
30) US’s Wilbur Ross said UK will have to dump European food safety standards and that losing our passporting rights to the EU would harm our interests with the US.
31) Developments in Lebanon, with it being said that Saudi Arabia said to have declared war. Many would consider this to be a proxy war against Iran. Crown Prince has purged political opponents including several with significant Wall Street interests. Eight died in a helicopter crash.
32) Large scale far right march in Poland as part of their Independence Day.

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Thread gallery
50
RedToothBrush · 14/11/2017 21:22

It seems to suggest the idea of free movement for professional workers generally, and not just financial workers.

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RedToothBrush · 14/11/2017 21:27

freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-net/freedom-net-2017
Freedom of the Net 2017
Manipulating Social Media to Undermine Democracy

UK rated as free but its score got worse. By more than the US got worse.

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RedToothBrush · 14/11/2017 21:29

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-theresa-may-date-leave-eu-uk-pressure-u-turn-scrap-exact-time-a8055166.html
Brexit: Theresa May under growing pressure to scrap exact departure date despite only proposing one days ago
Concerned Tory MPsare pressuring the Government to rewrite plans announced by the Prime Minister

At a “stormy” meeting, around 20 MPs confronted whips over the proposal which they fear will “tie the hands” of the UK, forcing the country out of Europe even if all necessary preparations have not been made.

The Government has been told to rewrite the proposal or face a humiliating defeat if it comes to a vote, most likely in early December.

20 Tory Rebels.
That's enough.

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RedToothBrush · 14/11/2017 21:35

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/90624/cabinet-ministers-fear-budget-car-crash
Cabinet ministers fear Budget 'car crash' as pressure mounts on Philip Hammond

Couple of interesting quotes in this:

One Cabinet minister said: "I fear that the Budget could be a complete car crash, a real disaster. There is so much riding on it, but look at what happened with the last one.

"The problem with Philip Hammond is that he has no idea about politics, so he doesn't factor that in to the decisions he makes. People try to explain how the choices he makes have a political impact, but he doesn't listen."

and

"The one thing that unites Brexiters andRemainersin the Cabinet is that they don't like Philip Hammond," said one minister.

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woman11017 · 14/11/2017 21:35

That's enough .OK, baby steps? Mood music from NS meeting is 'cordial'. I wonder what's been promised.

OlennasWimple · 14/11/2017 21:37

I'd agree with "most successful politician", sadly

RedToothBrush · 14/11/2017 21:40

Peston on FB

Unless the British people change their minds, which currently seems unlikely, we will be out of the EU at the end of March 2019.
There is no dispute about that. It is about the least ambiguous element in Article 50, which provides the rules for our EU divorce talks.
Which is why Theresa May’s last-minute attempt to enshrine that leaving date in the EU Withdrawal Bill, currently being debated by MPs, is seen by many even of her colleagues as all about gesture politics and nothing about how to help the UK secure the best Brexit deal.
What the erstwhile Remainers who now think of themselves as pragmatic Brexiteers fear is that enshrining that date in UK law could actually damage Britain - by making it much more complicated to extend divorce talks in the highly probable circumstance that those talks are not concluded in the next 16 ½ months, and also by limiting the scope and richness of any transition arrangement.
Apart from anything else, May’s Brexit minister David Davis has already conceded that the prospect of everything being wrapped up much before the very last nano-second is pretty remote, if the EU’s entire history is any kind of guide.
So it is little wonder that disappointed Tory Remainers like Anna Soubry and Dominic Grieve are planning to join forces with Labour to defeat this new clause in legislation that will shape our post-Brexit future.
And as I said last night on News at Ten, such a setback for May would be devastating for her already battered authority and would inject poisoned into an already fractious Tory party.
The question therefore is why on earth she thought enshrining the formal Brexit date in British law was anything but a cheap gimmick with the potential to catch fire and burn her.

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Motheroffourdragons · 14/11/2017 21:41

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

HashiAsLarry · 14/11/2017 21:45

the problem with Philip Hammond is he has no clue about politics
Sorry, did c&p so may be mistake from rtb quoted quote.

That probably explains why I don't mind him, above the others. Plays into the entire thing that he's willing to listen to all sides. Not very politic.

HashiAsLarry · 14/11/2017 21:49

And I can't type.
I didnt copy and paste, and I was mistaken.

No idea rather than no clue. Point still stand though
Blush

woman11017 · 14/11/2017 22:06

Russian hack attack on Britain’s energy grid confirmed by cyber security chief

National Cyber Security Centre chief Ciaran Martin is to confirm for the first time that the assault on major power companies was ordered by the Kremlin

www.thesun.co.uk/news/4915334/russian-hack-attack-on-britain-energy-grid-cyber-crime/

RedToothBrush · 14/11/2017 22:09

Express

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
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BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2017 22:12

LH No link re RUC - too long before proper Tinternet.
just my memory that the US Congress voted to ban Smith & Wesson from selling some weapons to the RUC
This was not long after after a British firm had bought the company in 1987.

RedToothBrush · 14/11/2017 22:13

Torygraph

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
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woman11017 · 14/11/2017 22:23

Gruesome DT and DE, red just horrible.

What sort of country is vulnerable to enemy attack? Not a strong and stable one. National security was one of the key reasons to remain.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2017 22:24

(paywall) Nearly 20 Tory MPs threaten side with Labour and rebel against Brexit date after ‘brutal’ meeting with chief whip

< including seven former ministers and two committee chairmen >
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/14/nearly-20-tory-mps-threaten-rebel-against-brexit-date-brutal/
....
The MPs confronted Julian Smith, the new chief whip, during a meeting on Monday to express their fury at the Government’s plans.

The rebels include many Tory MPs who are usually loyal to the Government
but are concerned that fixing the date of Brexit to March 29, 2019 will “tie our hands” in negotiations.

Labour announced that it plans to vote against the amendment.
Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit Secretary, said:

“Theresa May should stop pandering to the ‘no deal’ enthusiasts in her own party and withdraw these amendments.
If not, Labour will vote against them to support our own amendments and guarantee a transition that protects jobs and living standards.”
....
The Telegraph understands that 18 Tory MPs attended the meeting
more than enough to defeat the Government if Labour joins them in voting against the Government’s amendment next month.
.....
One MP who was present said:
“It was a brutal meeting.
There was a wonderful moment when Julian Smith kept looking round and said ‘I’m not the departmental minister, I’m trying to help’. Grin

“He said I have only been in post for a week. < lickle diddums Grin >
It was obvious he didn’t know what he was talking about.
< like the rest of the govt >
Dominic was politely but forensically questioning Julian and he didn’t have the answers.”

It came after Anna Soubry, a former minister, told the BBC:
“It was stormy because you have got people at that meeting who have never spoken out.
....
“These are people, a lot of them ex-ministers, highly respected, and they are genuinely cross about this.
There were some people there who have never rebelled and they are now talking, for the first time ever, of rebelling.”

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2017 22:40

(paywall) The Dirty Duo explained

< looks like Gove leads the Dirty Duo >

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/johnson-and-gove-join-forces-again-in-push-for-hard-brexit-h9327g335

Boris Johnson and Michael Gove have formed a “political alliance of necessity” to deliver their model of Brexit
in a move that has unnerved some fellow Conservatives.

Allies of both cabinet ministers say they and their wider circle have bonded in the past few months to counter the leadership vacuum from No 10.

Senior ministers have told The Times that Mr Gove is very much in the lead when it comes to the direction on Brexit
and is more likely to stand up to figures such as Philip Hammond and Amber Rudd in cabinet.
...
.People who have taken part in meetings with Mrs May in recent weeks say that she does not obviously impose herself on proceedings,
some of the things she says are “quite random” and “obtuse”
< so she's the same in cabinet as in public >
and her body language suggests that she is not at ease.
.....
However, an attempt by Mr Gove and Mr Johnson to “take back control” of the government agenda could cause jitters.
“I don’t like the idea that they could be dictating terms.
It is not an attractive look,” said one senior Tory.
....
Mr Hammond is thought to believe that, of the various Brexiteers around the cabinet table,
Mr Gove is the most formidable, forensic and well briefed.
.....
The alliance is not, at present, based on leadership ambitions although that could change if Mrs May went suddenly.
....
Nicky Morgan, Tory chairwoman of the Treasury select committee, said:
“As ever, having a government within a government seems wrong in the same way as having a party within the party.
We’re never going to heal the divisions on Brexit like this.”

annandale · 14/11/2017 22:40

I wonder if it is as miserable working for the Daily Express as it is working for the Daily Mail?

lalalonglegs · 14/11/2017 22:46

It's far, far worse, annadale - at least the Mail believes in paying its hacks.

HashiAsLarry · 14/11/2017 23:12

Australia have just voted for marriage equality by over 61% with a turnout of just under 80%. Non binding vote though.
Will be interesting to see what happens if that's not acted on would rather it was acted on though

Holliewantstobehot · 14/11/2017 23:19

I actually think Gove is very clever. Much more so than Boris. I don't like the man or his politics but he definitely shouldn't be underated.

HesterThrale · 14/11/2017 23:33

Gove may be clever. He may even have the ability to manipulate himself into power. (Although it didn't work for him last year.)
But I don't believe he has the personality to carry people along with him, to make them believe that he cares in their best interests and is taking them the right way. He managed to alienate pretty much the entire education profession, as these summaries show. He's a divisive character, and that's the last thing we need right now.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2014/jul/22/michael-gove-legacy-education-secretary

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2017 23:43

George Freeman, Theresa May’s policy adviser

  • Tory MP and chairman of the Conservative Policy Forum -
astonishing apocalyptic speech at an economics conference

< does he tell her this too ? >

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-adviser-eu-withdrawal-george-freeman-mp-tory-conservative-policy-forum-a8054106.html

Brexit risks being “the moment we finally failed as a great nation”

.....he now feared the troubled exit process would create an impoverished country,
like “an old people’s home that couldn’t pay for itself”.

“That I see as a very real prospect and it chills me to the bone,”

Brexit could be “the moment we finally failed as a great nation and became a second or third tier nation”.

Cailleach1 · 14/11/2017 23:46

i don't think gove or johnson come across like they have any empathy.

RedToothBrush · 14/11/2017 23:49

Chris Cook @ xhristopercook
NB - Morgan, Heald, Djanogly, Neill, Grieve, Clarke, Sandbach, Masterson and Soubry are all former lawyers.

Re: Tory Rebels

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