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Brexit

Rumour has it, some remainers are a little glum.....

693 replies

Carolinesbeanies · 06/11/2017 10:03

So in the spirit of sharing our deluded brexiteer cheerfulness, heres a round up of some of this weeks good news.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-5040279/UK-exports-booming-outside-Europe.html

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/london-news/big-boost-world-bank-ranks-uk-seventh-in-its-doing-business-report/18554.article

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/world-trade-makes-a-comeback-845798/amp

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-volkswagen/vw-explores-uk-banking-licence-ahead-of-brexit-idUKKBN1D22KR

The government have 'found' £60billion to put is a slush fund for brexit.

https://amp.ft.com/content/f3271ac7-7439-319f-ba90-9252f59aafee

And in the week that saw the interest rate rise, the Bank of England said gloomily "as migration tightens, we will see wage growth". Note the 'we will'. Smile

Excellent. All this whilst the media obsess over impotent politicians as Britain works.

Rumour has it, some remainers are a little glum.....
OP posts:
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MelodyvonPeterswald · 11/11/2017 06:51

The EU 27 has a €120Billion trade surplus with the UK. It's mainly Germany. We spend €120B on their stuff than they do on ours.

There is nothing that Germany makes or sell that we couldn't make or do ourselves.

Also, I am yet to meet a BMW driver who isn't an arrogant, entitled, status-conscious, inconsiderate wanker.

MelodyvonPeterswald · 11/11/2017 06:54

That's a €120B more each year.

If we spent that money on things we do and make in he UK (rather than Germany), it would create jobs in the UK. Jobs in the UK contribute to the NHS. Jobs in Germany contribute diddly squat to the NHS.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 11/11/2017 08:24

Apologies Somerville for misunderstanding your comment re the GFA.

Wrt ignoring the GFA, it appears to be the EU that is doing this rather than the U.K.
U.K. has said ‘no border’ and is striving to find technological solutions, but the leaked document from the EU side is clear wrt their stance:
No technological solution will be considered, they want to place a border within the U.K. (round the island of Ireland).
This may seem obvious & simple, but as you & others have pointed out repeatedly it is not an option, not least because the eu can not dictate how a sovereign nation applies its borders: it’s a massive overstretch for them to mandate Britain to effectively split into two.
More importantly however, their ‘solution’ (dictat) flagrantly ignores the GFA from the perspective of NI citizens who identify as solely British (and obvs dual British/Irish).

For the NI/Ireland conundrum to be solved, with the GFA being honoured by all sides, there is no option other than a technological solution & this cannot be addressed until a framework for a trading agreement is reached.

themueslicamel · 11/11/2017 09:54

Has anyone else noticed that this is the only Brexit thread on MN where people are respectful of other opinions, haven’t resorted to slander and name calling

The one mainly occupied by us “thick, racist bigots” who “don’t understand” what we’re doing.

Oh the irony.....

MelodyvonPeterswald · 11/11/2017 10:52

Excellent, excellent point themueslicamel . I find that if you call out the "You must be racist, thick, provincial, old" BS (right from the start), Remainers have very little else to say. It's like saying "cos patriarchy" on the feminist threads.

Insulting BMW drivers is permitted however.

Somerville · 11/11/2017 11:12

No worries, faith. It's all too easy to assume someone with a differing opinion is insulting ones own, and I know I make that mistake sometimes too.

The issue with the technological solution is that it isn't a solution. And not because the timings are too short to find and install such technology - though that's true too. But telling a person that cameras will be watching as they drive across the border to see their aunt in the next village, or that they have to fill in a form to move stock from one part of their business to another, or any of the hundreds of other barriers that this tech would throw up, is untenable to an Irish-identifying person who for twenty years has been afforded the respect of being allowed to not recognise that border. On a practical level the cameras would be shot down and the forms will be ignored, (and the people going to fix the cameras or check the lorries would be given shortshrift - and unfortunately met with violence - so there would be no way to enforce it) which Ireland/EU are pointing out, as well as their stated position that imposing those constraints on an Irish person who lived in the north would be contrary to their rights as enshrined in the GFA.
I agree though that having to show their passport to get into the "rest of the Uk" (as my NI Protestant neighbours would see it, and which I want to respect) would potentially be just as discriminatory to their rights under the GFA. Anyone saying lightly that either an Irish Sea border or technological border is an obvious solution probabaly hasn't read the Belfast treaty and certainly hasn't lived under it; I know no-one saying that either is tenable who does, except those goading the 'other side'.

Which leaves the whole thing an incredible mess.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 11/11/2017 11:38

I admit that I couldn’t see why there would be a problem with a sea border, until it was explained to me (maybe by you?!) on MN last year.

If you’re not living it, it’s easy to underestimate & not fully understand all the implications.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/11/2017 14:25

there is no option other than a technological solution & this cannot be addressed until a framework for a trading agreement is reached.

Who will be paying for this "technological solution?" I cannot see nationalists nor the NI business lobby agreeing to anything that compromises the status quo in terms of a border. It took 3 decades and thousands of lives to bring us to the GFA. Brexit threatens that, for no good reason whatsoever. The majority on the island of Ireland do not want Brexit.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/11/2017 14:27

If you’re not living it, it’s easy to underestimate & not fully understand all the implications.

Absolutely and a perfect reason why there should not have been a referendum on a highly complex issue that very few understand in its entirety.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 11/11/2017 15:39

The majority on the island of Ireland do not want Brexit.

But the majority of the UK do.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/11/2017 15:48

But the majority of the UK do.

England and Wales want it. As you are learning with NI, British politics its nuanced, culturally sensitive and finely balanced. That is why a one sized fits all Brexit will not work.

Its nice that Brexiteers are learning more about the place they profess to be patriotic about its just a shame they didn't do their homework before the referendum. 20 years ago Brexiteers would have been beating their chest and shouting "no surrender" now they appear happy to throw NI under a bus.

NameChanger22 · 11/11/2017 16:34

I think brexiters are more glum than remainers and more than a little paranoid.

In my city today there were people standing with 'Leave the EU' banners. I asked them why they were bothering, when they'd won and we are actually leaving the EU. They said they were not happy with the way things were going Confused. Can a brexiter please explain this to me? I honestly can't understand the mentality.

time4chocolate · 11/11/2017 17:37

Namechange22 - I haven’t seen any glum brexiteers in my neck of the woods. Was there something local to you that they weren’t happy about, that had ruffled a few feathers?

At least you were able to reassure them as I would have done in the same situation.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 11/11/2017 17:40

That is why a one sized fits all Brexit will not work.

Brexit is happening because the EU ‘one size fits all’ dogma hasn’t and isn’t working.

DontMakeMeShushYou · 11/11/2017 18:00

Melody

A car built in Coventry contributes to funding the NHS. A car built in Munich does not.

There are two fucking huge great BMW factories close to where I grew up right down there in sunny England. I know several people who work there. They won't be funding the NHS if BMW decide it's better to make the MINI in Germany. But, that's alright because anyone who might have considered buying a mini built in the UK will now choose a Jag instead, obvs!

MelodyvonPeterswald · 11/11/2017 18:19

Buy MINIs

MelodyvonPeterswald · 11/11/2017 18:23

Who will be paying for this "technological solution?"
I'd be paying for that than pension of His Excellency the Bibulous President Juncker

OwlOfBrown · 11/11/2017 18:32

I'd be paying for that than pension of His Excellency the Bibulous President Juncker

You're currently paying the pension of someone you've made up in your head??? You're a strange one.

MelodyvonPeterswald · 11/11/2017 18:35

I'd rather be paying for a workable solution to the NI border issue than the pension any Eureaucrat.

AgnesSkinner · 11/11/2017 18:46

Good. Let’s tell Farage that we’re spending his pension on NI.

MelodyvonPeterswald · 11/11/2017 18:55

As long as we can stop funding the defunct institution that is the EU

MelodyvonPeterswald · 11/11/2017 18:58

The majority on the island of Ireland do not want Brexit

I'm sure that is the case for all the net beneficiaries of EU funding.

Bearbehind · 11/11/2017 19:18

I find that if you call out the "You must be racist, thick, provincial, old" BS (right from the start), Remainers have very little else to say

The incredibly sad thing is, I’m sure you believe that.

It is Leavers complete refusal to discuss the actual problems that is the real issue here, but if it suits you to believe it’s just about name calling then crack on.

AgnesSkinner · 11/11/2017 19:22

I'm sure that is the case for all the net beneficiaries of EU funding

So why did Wales vote Leave?

www.cardiff.ac.uk/news/view/327490-wales-net-benefit-from-the-eu-budget-estimated-at-around-79-per-head

...the amount of money Wales received from the EU budget in 2014 totalled £658m, while Wales’ contribution to the EU (after accounting for a share of the UK’s rebate) stood at £414m.

MelodyvonPeterswald · 11/11/2017 19:23

I've no doubt there are and will be challenges but they are all surmountable. The comment above was in response to Leave voices are drowned out by being accused of being racist, old, bigots. Acknowledgement of the Remain trope meana we can hopefully have a civil debate.

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