Rumour has it, some remainers are a little glum.....

[Carolinesbeanies]

So in the spirit of sharing our deluded brexiteer cheerfulness, heres a round up of some of this weeks good news.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-5040279/UK-exports-booming-outside-Europe.html

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/london-news/big-boost-world-bank-ranks-uk-seventh-in-its-doing-business-report/18554.article

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/world-trade-makes-a-comeback-845798/amp

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-volkswagen/vw-explores-uk-banking-licence-ahead-of-brexit-idUKKBN1D22KR

The government have 'found' £60billion to put is a slush fund for brexit.

https://amp.ft.com/content/f3271ac7-7439-319f-ba90-9252f59aafee

And in the week that saw the interest rate rise, the Bank of England said gloomily "as migration tightens, we will see wage growth". Note the 'we will'.

Excellent. All this whilst the media obsess over impotent politicians as Britain works.

Still spreading utterly incorrect nonsense about the situation for the island of Ireland, I see OP.

The only issue is VAT and there's not a 'people problem' That's why the Bar Council of Ireland said this week that Brexit is incompatible with the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement on issues such as citizenship and the free movement of people.

Though, to stay on topic, I am pretty cheerful, as I'm convinced that either Brexit won't go ahead, or that it will greatly speed up a United Ireland (and independent Scotland).

Brexit leading to a break up of the "United Kingdom" is the ultimate irony, really, and makes me smile.

Yes it's interesting isn't it. Walking through Waterloo station during my lunch break pondering on how I miss Gordon Brown, whose face is currently peering down from book selling posters. What would happen if we had a second financial meltdown now? Nobody in the current government would have a clue. Genuinely frightening times.

Brexit leading to a break up of the "United Kingdom" is the ultimate irony, really, and makes me smile

If this means we'd be seeing the back of Nicola Sturgeon I'd more than smiling. I'd be jumping for joy.

Which side of the border do you think the refugees will be lining up on?

Glad you sorted that cactus out Melody

I fear, Somerville, Scottish EU support has dropped off a cliff with the Catalonia situation, but Ill stay cheerful for you.

Some nice bits of cheery stuff today. Starting with a debunk. Oh dear The Guardian. Again.

https://iea.org.uk/would-post-brexit-tariffs-really-cost-uk-consumers-930-a-year/

EY issued its storming year end report. "The firm also grew their employee base by around 4,000 people in the past year. Among them, EY’s new employees also included 1,500 student places and 130 apprenticeships. " And yep, thats UK only.

https://www.consultancy.uk/news/14448/ey-reports-strong-growth-in-revenue-and-consultant-count-across-uk-and-ireland

PwC Issued their City Growth report today. All good cheery stuff though we must keep pressure on for a decent house building programme.

"There has seldom been a better time to embed a more inclusive place based approach to growth across cities and regions, supported by a more localised industrial strategy. In the light of Brexit, there is also an opportunity for cities and regions to do more to build city-to-city trading links in overseas markets."

https://www.pwc.co.uk/government-public-sector/good-growth/assets/pdf/2017-good-growth-for-cities.pdf

A former EU judge, is suing the EU Court of Justice. This cheery news fall into the category of 'accountability'. Its great news for all democratic europeans.

https://www.politico.eu/article/former-judge-sues-eu-court-amid-allegations-of-financial-mismanagement/amp/

I watch bonds, so apols to those who dont. EU Investors hoping for a rabbit from Draghi. (This does lead to cheery news..hang on)

"Draghi's toolbox has been downsized. Investors can't say they weren't given fair warning. Their only consolation: his ability to pull a surprise at the very last moment."

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/amp/articles/2017-11-08/italy-can-t-keep-relying-on-draghi-until-the-end-of-time

Whilst across the water, cheery news for UK gilts and bonds. Whoop!

https://www.ft.com/content/a23534ce-ba63-3066-a24a-6aa62754d89e

Just touching on Italy. Berlusconi ? Back by popular demand after success this weekend in Sicily? EU Commision must be thrilled, not just because of the acidic history between them, but hes threatening dumping the euro.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-currency-berlusconi-commission/eu-shoots-down-berlusconi-parallel-currency-proposal-idUSKCN1B32BP

"That's why the Bar Council of Ireland said this week that Brexit is incompatible with the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement on issues such as citizenship and the free movement of people."

Just went to check this for you Somerville, and Im cheered to say, they didnt say quite what you believe they did. What Paul McGarry said was ;

McGarry stated that "the Good Friday Agreement and Brexit are incompatible for a number of reasons. First, the imposition of a post-Brexit border between Northern and Southern Ireland cannot be reconciled with a guarantee on free movement, as assured by the Good Friday Agreement. In addition, the entitlement of people born in Northern Ireland to Irish Citizenship would mean a direct route to EU citizenship."

Firstly, He is clearly and absolutely referring to an alleged hard border. Thats what he talks about. Secondly, he correctly observes that dual citizenship equals EU citizenship.

So what do all parties say;

Heres what the UK government have clearly stated on those issues.
There will be no physical border. TM has repeated this numerous times. Dual citizenship will remain. Heres the position paper. (Link below. It screws up the formatting if I link in the body)

Heres what the Irish PM says on the issue. Hes repeated several times, "one thing is for certain, the CTA and NI citizenship will remain".

".....while there will be a big debate and difficult negotiations around issues such as trade and the financial settlement, the fact that Dublin, Belfast, London and Brussels want to continue passport free travel between Northern Ireland and Ireland gives me absolute assurance this will be the case." (Links below)

Heres the EUs position on this issue.

"The continued operation of the Common Travel Area is fundamental to facilitating the interaction of people in Ireland and the United Kingdom. Furthermore, it underpins the peace process and the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement, in particular the citizenship and identity provisions, by facilitating the movement of people across the island of Ireland. "

"Full account should be taken of the fact that Irish citizens residing in Northern Ireland will continue to enjoy rights as EU citizens. "

So for some, inexplicable reason, Paul McGarry chooses to ignore the clearly stated positions of all parties, to make his statement. A statement one assumes, is merely based on an "If an hard border were erected?" question. Did the Times or whoever, merely miss that very telling question out of their reports?

Somerville, theres plenty of 'If', 'may', 'could', commentors out there, its been the basis of most remainers arguments. Correction. Its been the basis of all remainer arguments. Not to mention the political shit stirring from Junker, Verhofstadt etc

So lets stick with what we know shall we. And what we know is cheery indeed! All parties who need to give assurances, have given assurances. Go be happy.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/638135/6.37033DEXEUNorthernnIrelandanddIrelandINTERACTIVE.pdff_
_
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/08/28/news/leo-varadkar-very-confident-border-will-remain-passport-free-after-brexit-11218422__/
_
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/guiding-principles-dialogue-ei-nii_en.pdf






Somerville, theres plenty of 'If', 'may', 'could', commentors out there, its been the basis of most remainers arguments. Correction. Its been the basis of all remainer arguments. Not to mention the political shit stirring from Junker, Verhofstadt etc

Couldn’t agree more, the lack of input from remain regulars speaks volumes to me. I don’t have time for fannying around with articles full of ‘ifs’ ‘maybes’ ‘might’. Just give me cold hard FACTS although they would appear to be coming from just the one side at the moment

Jaguar and Landrover are owned by a Indian company are they not ?

Mansplaining Ireland to Irish people again OP?

Hint: If you have to go off to Google to understand the details of what another poster references, you don't know enough about it to then explain it to them. (What's happened to MN... this used to be well understood on the boards.)

Of all the multitude of things you just got wrong, this one is the most damaging and must be corrected:
Firstly, He is clearly and absolutely referring to an alleged hard border. Thats what he talks about.

No he doesn't. I've read everything the Bar Council released on this issue, and talked to someone involved, and it is clear that they are talking about the imposition of any border at all. Because any kind of border being imposed on our small island angers many of the people of the north of Ireland. Even if it is only marked out by cameras and new signage. Actually, even if there are no cameras and signage, but my relatives have to submit paperwork to move goods between the family businesses that happen to be in different "countries" but have not been treated as such for twenty years.

I know that the uninformed can't get their heads around this, but the issue is a bunch of English people imposing changes on the island of Ireland, all over again, that are in their best interests and not in ours. Just as you are fervently unhappy with the EU as you consider them to be undemocratic, we are fervently unhappy at the British government treating us undemocratically (and worse) for hundreds of years. Twenty years of ceasefire means nothing if our rights are once more trampled all over.

Which is so why I'm happy - the whole world is witnessing as Brexiters undermine the GFA with their undemocratic assault on the north of Ireland. I suspect that said Brexiters will wise up, and Brexit will be dropped. But it's clear from what's happening at Stormont that plans are laid for if they go ahead against the will of both parts of the NI community.

The only worrying thing is if this all becomes violent again. I hope we can all agree, at the very least, that we don't want a resumption of civil war?

349,442 voters in NI disagree with you re: leaving the EU.

And of course 470,432 couldn’t be arsed either way.

440,707 agree with you, granted, but you are not the ‘voice of NI’, however much you want to be.

Trying to shout down the person you disagree with as unrepresentative smacks of desperation, Faith.
I know you, and OP, are unpersuadable. I'm not trying to change your minds. But I am countering incorrect facts where I see them. And OP saying that the issue is only with a "hard border" is entirely incorrect. A hard border would play right into the hands of the small numbers of armed-republicans, so it's not even consideration.

I love this thread!

I voted remain because we are in the construction industry and I didnt want another recession when we had only just scrapped through the last one.

However. We live in the north. And oop north since brexit things are improving. Our town relied pretty heavily on the coal and steel industry. We haven't had a steel industry for at least 10 years. It massively declined and declined and declined until all the mills and plants were dormant.

We are now seeing the steel industry grow again.

Which is a Good Thing for us oop north.

We are also seeing a gradual decline in the use of cheap, european labour that has caused us issues in the construction industry. I think this is probably more to do with the falling value of the £ vs the €. So £300 a week was enough to pay digs and send a good whack home. Now the whack going home isn't worth as much so the european gangmasters aren't getting away with paying £50 a day for a skill set worth at least £120. Which makes more work available for us. Who can charge a reasonable rate to pay our lads a reasonable wage.

But you aren't allowed to say shit like that on a remoaner thread because us oop north get a fuck ton of eu funding and without those crumbs we will starve and die.

Us oop north don't want eu funding. We just want to make stuff and sell stuff and build stuff because we don't have the infrastructure, the investment or I presume thr brains to compete in media, finance or other London/southern markets.

We are simple creatures oop north you see. We obviously don't have the intelligence to decide that something really important like Brexit might benefit us more than remain so shouldn't have voted the way we did. Cos we are all fick racists init?

Trying to shout down the person you disagree with as unrepresentative smacks of desperation, Faith.

Hardly ‘shouting down’, just calmly typing out facts.

Massive difference.

Cheery news Frouby 😊

The exploitation of Eastern EU workers was one of the reasons I voted Leave.

Not only is it shit for them, it was shit for the British tradespeople too - the message that ‘locals didn’t want to... [insert job of choice]...” was widespread & untrue.

Yes it's shocking some of the conditions they were expected to work in for 1/3 of the pay a tradesperson who was uk based would demand.

When you have 6 blokes sharing 1 double room, working 12 hour shifts for £50 and you are claiming £120 minimum for them you are onto a winning formula as a 'ganger'.

We just couldn't compete. We pay our labourers £9-£10 an hour because that's what you have to pay.

Local tradespeople wouldn't get out of bed for £50 a day because it's not enough to live on. Not when you are leaving in £s not €s.

I loved your post Frouby and I’m so glad things are looking up for you north 🥂🤞

Also from Oop North. Not sure it looks quite so rosy every where “oop” here.

Sorry to hear that Ssshhhh. We are from south yorkshire. Perhaps it depends where oooop north you are and also what sectors influence you locally.

The steel industry has always been a massive employer here. Not just within the plants themselves but other businesses around it. Which is usually the case.

And being in the building industry we are usually one of the first to feel the pinch. We mainly do commercial builds and pre the brexit vote would have been doing residential next year. Which we try and avoid for various operational reasons. Now we have work through to January in the commercial sector and a few options afterwards. We are cautiously optimistic atm. And hopeful that even if the commercial sector contracts again the reduction in the available labour force means prices stay reasonable and there is enough work for all.

There have been rumblings about certain skills being lost as fewer young people go into trades. I personally don't see that as being the problem. The problem has been that trades could no longer afford 'lads' to train up. They only ever learn the basics at college, doing it in the real world is vastly different.

The way we have seen large gangs work is each man can do 1 aspect of the job. So one guy measures and cuts track. Another fits it. Another measures and cuts boards. Another fits the boards. But non of them actually know how to build a bloody wall.

They charge less money so it means qualified tradespeople have to work harder to earn a wage which means they have a labourer doing the grunt work like bringing boards in. But no one has time to train the labourer up to fit boards. Labourer gets bored/can earn more doing something else and leaves the trade. In the past they would go from carrying the boards to fixing them etc.

So whilst in theory an injection of available labour from the EU seems a good way to get more skilled labour it seems to be backfiring. That's not to say that all European tradespeople don't have the skills. Some are very skilled. But even the skilled eu labour force (Polish in particular have left to go back home) are concerned about diluting the skills necessary and falling wages due to the increase in number.

One of the scottish tv channels, recently broadcast a documentary about the berry pickers from eastern europe, mostly lithuania, Bulgaria and Romania. It painted a rosy picture of happy, well-looked after workers, farm owners benefitting from their labour and consumers enjoying lower prices than they would have if the work was done by locals. Everyone was worried about the effect of brexit on them.

Scottish govt has made huge cuts to fe colleges. Joiners and plumbers are already incredibly thin on the ground.

Levels of personal debt are very high. Which is very bad for the future economy.

The reputation of Britain must have gone down so much since last year what with Brexit, TM rushing off to hold DT's hand, Grenfell Tower.

Numbers of EU students studying here are down since brexit. That includes nursing and medicine.

Some facts and figures on EU Nationals living in Scotland to counter some of the more romanticised notions. eg they number under 200k in total, 94% of them live in urban areas and so are unlikely to be doing much berry picking.

www.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefingsAndFactsheets/S5/SB_16-86_EU_nationals_living_in_Scotland.pdf

Fewer EU Nationals taking up the capped funded places provided by the Scottish Government is a positive, although given there is a small intake demographic for the next couple of years followed by a bulge I suspect there will be some political manoeuvring to accommodate this.

Frouby - good to hear!
Re Scotland - this is why I am completely sanguine about Neccchola Sturrrrrrrrgeon getting her way...I think it would be a good think. Edinburgh really would become the Athens of the North.

thing

You don't live here then Melody? The last thing most of the Scottish people want is for NS to get her way! The last thing we want is to be separated from our biggest trading partner - rUK!

Agreed Corcory. Also per the projections, released the other week, Scotland's population is far more sensitive to migration from rUK than from rEU.

Todays cheery news! Penny Mordaunt and Victoria Atkins.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BrexitCentral/status/928630196697264129

http://www.louthleader.co.uk/news/victoria-atkins-mp-slams-university-safe-spaces-in-parliament-1-7580403

After yesterday EY's awesome results, more excellent news across the sector from Robert Waters.

http://www.cityam.com/275422/square-mile-jobs-surge-boosts-pay-financial-services/amp

Weatherspoons ready to 'leave' and trashes remainers false claims. Hes absolutely right about WTO. Those who make ridiculous claims, quite simply dont understand the WTO.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/11/08/wetherspoon-chairman-hits-highly-misleading-brexit-rhetoric/amp/

UK 'most attractive' for silicon valley investors.

http://www.bqlive.co.uk/digital/2017/11/09/news/uk-most-attractive-for-silicon-valley-investors-28805/

University world rankings. UK have 3 in the top 5 Medical schools.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/best-universities-medicine

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN1D803V

Looking at the North West today, some cheery folk in Knutsford and Speke.

Knutsford Dairy posting cheery news whilst expanding into South east asia.

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/northwest/dairy-reaches-20m-milestone-despite-falling-exports

Speke factory 40m expansion have snaffled packaging production back from Italy. Well done guys.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-41922906

Even Michael O'Learys doing ok .....how odd!

https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/877161/brexit-travel-ryanair-new-flights-belfast-malta/amp

Today 09:55 frumpety

Jaguar and Landrover are owned by a Indian company are they not
Correct and they are built here and providing great jobs.