Rumour has it, some remainers are a little glum.....

[Carolinesbeanies]

So in the spirit of sharing our deluded brexiteer cheerfulness, heres a round up of some of this weeks good news.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-5040279/UK-exports-booming-outside-Europe.html

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/london-news/big-boost-world-bank-ranks-uk-seventh-in-its-doing-business-report/18554.article

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/world-trade-makes-a-comeback-845798/amp

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-volkswagen/vw-explores-uk-banking-licence-ahead-of-brexit-idUKKBN1D22KR

The government have 'found' £60billion to put is a slush fund for brexit.

https://amp.ft.com/content/f3271ac7-7439-319f-ba90-9252f59aafee

And in the week that saw the interest rate rise, the Bank of England said gloomily "as migration tightens, we will see wage growth". Note the 'we will'.

Excellent. All this whilst the media obsess over impotent politicians as Britain works.

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation

Don't care.

This is not a thread where we are trying to be liked. We are supposed to be discussing serious matters. Don't waste our time with nonsensical personal attacks. No one cares.

Are Leavers pleased with today's impasse?

Lol at you saying personal attacks are not on.

Perhaps if you backed off with the personal attacks then posters would engage?

Peregrina, no I'm not.

It's not entirely unexpected, but I'm not cock-a-hoop about it.

The only way the Ireland/NI situation can be pragmatically addressed is alongside trade talks.
There is no problem re movement of people, it is entirely down to customs & movement of goods, post Brexit.

Staying within the customs union is not Brexit, but having a customs & regulations alignment/agreement is entirely possible.

I'm pissed off massively with the stupid game playing & dick swinging on all sides at the mo - the needless politicking is not helping anyone at all.

Staying within the customs union is not Brexit,

Who says so? All we were asked were did we want to Remain or Leave.
More money for the NHS would be Brexit in my book, but there is little sign of that happening.

Who says so?

Sorry, should have caveated!

'In my opinion' staying within the customs union is not Brexit.

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation

Now this a good discussion.

Most Leavers and Remainers disagree with you that this was what was sold.

Farage, BoJo, Hannan are all on record saying we were staying in the SM.

What is bad about the SM and what alternative is better?

Remain campaigners said:
a vote to leave the EU was a vote to leave the single market.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=9fDn0MvcHQ4

Leave campaign said:
A vote to leave the eu was a vote to leave the single market.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=OjdWsCDGQp4

I simply googled YouTube "a vote to leave was a vote to leave the single market", et voila! Not just Farage et al saying it, but also the prominent Remain campaigners too.

But you knew that already, so not quite sure what your point is tbh.

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation

Point is British voters' perception was that we were not leaving the SM or CU - cf the poll. Leavers and Remainers.

And we know it was not on the ballot. One can technically be in the SM and CU and not in the EU.

So what is so bad about the SM and is the alternative better?

*I'm tired of the BS. I'm very respectful to those who have well founded and researched views. Or those who don't know and want to learn.

I have spent a lot of time researching the ins and outs Of Brexit. I don't know everything but I research aspects I don't know well. And I expect everyone else to do the same as it's so important to our future. That or shut up.*

The irony of posting this, and then blatantly posting something that is not only factually incorrect, but easily disproved in a matter of seconds.

Point is British voters' perception was that we were not leaving the SM or CU - cf the poll. Leavers and Remainers.

Polls are not fact.

The fact is that all of the prominent campaigners of both Remain & Leave made it explicitly clear that a vote to leave the eu was a vote to leave the single market.

A wise person once said:
"I have spent a lot of time researching the ins and outs Of Brexit. I don't know everything but I research aspects I don't know well."

I also try to live by this rule.

So what is so bad about the SM

Very simply, it keeps UK shackled to the EU behemoth which is what I wanted to end.

No flexibility, no scope to make independent trade deals, the dogmatic adherence to the freedoms at all costs.

The world is bigger than Europe, and the world is a much smaller & a more interconnected & agile place now wrt trade, thanks to leaps in technology & comms.

Faith - do a bit more googling - Farage also extolled the Norway option. The trouble is, he then found it required FoM and this fell foul of his racist principles. Hannan also said we would stay in the Single Market, I recall - he was on Newsnight a day or so after the result. BoJo said nothing would change.

I don't need to google, thanks.

It's the future I'm interested in, I've no desire to rehash the past or the referendum campaign.

I was just pointing out that my perception of 'Brexit = Leave single market" had a basis & wasn't just a figment if my imagination as was implied.

But you did just rehash the past, The fact is that all of the prominent campaigners of both Remain & Leave made it explicitly clear that a vote to leave the eu was a vote to leave the single market.

When in fact, no one really knows what Brexit means, which is why they are in a mess now. If it was solely, 'Let's find the money for the NHS, this is our priority.", then I am quite sure that Hammond would have found the money, and there wouldn't be the squabbles going on in the Tory party.

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation

I'm calling the bullshit here. Leaving the SM or not is not fact. It is perception. There is nothing in writing anywhere that stipulated that leaving the EU meant leaving the SM. Prominent leavers said we were not leaving the SM. So cut the bullshit. Please.

Now let's get to your quotes:

Very simply, it keeps UK shackled to the EU behemoth which is what I wanted to end.

How. Describe specifically what is at issue.

No flexibility, no scope to make independent trade deals, the dogmatic adherence to the freedoms at all costs.

The four freedoms are what define the SM. They are a requirement to ensure we can trade in a frictionless manner across EU borders. It MUST be protected.

What trade deals would you like done. We have trade deals with 60 countries already. What's missing in your view that we will be better at negotiating than the EU?

The world is bigger than Europe, and the world is a much smaller & a more interconnected & agile place now wrt trade, thanks to leaps in technology & comms.

I have no idea what this means.

But no the world is not that much bigger for the UK. This is because countries tend to trade a lot more with other countries that are close by and large. It's called the gravity model and makes sense: it's hard to get on a plane for 24 hours. 1 or 2 hours is much easier.

I'm calling the bullshit here.

Knock yourself out thread prefect.

Prominent leavers said we were not leaving the SM. So cut the bullshit. Please.

Please see handy links.

As for the rest of your missive, please refer to my post earlier, where I was quite clear about being choosy re who I deign to debate with.

But you did just rehash the past, The fact is that all of the prominent campaigners of both Remain & Leave made it explicitly clear that a vote to leave the eu was a vote to leave the single market.

That post was in response to another poster who is (for some unfathomable reason), insistent on reliving the Ref campaign.

I am spectacularly uninterested in rehashing tired, old arguments - I made my point, now I've tired of it.

It's not possible not to rehash the Referendum because it was botched, so no one now knows what the result does mean. I don't have any problem going back and quoting the words of Johnson, Redwood etc. because so far I have seen nothing of substance from them. Redwood told us that it was perfectly possible to buy a British made family car. Er, Nissan, BMW (Mini), Toyota? I don't see any mention of Morris there. Redwood also told his wealthy chums not to invest in the UK. Yes, it is worth reminding people that his loyalty is not to his fellow citizens.

no scope to make independent trade deals

But Norway, within the SM but outside the CU, happily manages to strike its own trade deals? It is perfectly free to do so - either in concert with other EFTA members or on its own. Members of EFTA have dozens of deals, including two with China. In fact, EFTA has something like 27 free trade agreements across the world, plus individual members have bilateral deals too.

Not exactly shackled by the “EU behemoth” though?

Norway isn't in the single market, it pays for access to it.

It's different.

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation

Typical Brexshitter modus operandi. I have seen exceptions but you are not one.

Get caught in bullshit or can't answer simple questions so run and hide.

@OliviaD68

m.youtube.com/watch?v=t0I4mTEdAf8

Norway, Lichtenstein and Iceland are members of the Single Market.

In 1994, the EU extended membership of the Single Market to three non-EU states: Norway, Lichtenstein and Iceland. This was enshrined into law through the 1994 European Economic Area (EEA) Agreement.

Here's the EFTA link that explains how the EEA works as a Single Market:

www.efta.int/eea/eea-agreement/eea-basic-features

And a useful article from the Institute of Government:

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/article-127-and-single-market