Rumour has it, some remainers are a little glum.....

[Carolinesbeanies]

So in the spirit of sharing our deluded brexiteer cheerfulness, heres a round up of some of this weeks good news.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-5040279/UK-exports-booming-outside-Europe.html

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/london-news/big-boost-world-bank-ranks-uk-seventh-in-its-doing-business-report/18554.article

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/world-trade-makes-a-comeback-845798/amp

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-volkswagen/vw-explores-uk-banking-licence-ahead-of-brexit-idUKKBN1D22KR

The government have 'found' £60billion to put is a slush fund for brexit.

https://amp.ft.com/content/f3271ac7-7439-319f-ba90-9252f59aafee

And in the week that saw the interest rate rise, the Bank of England said gloomily "as migration tightens, we will see wage growth". Note the 'we will'.

Excellent. All this whilst the media obsess over impotent politicians as Britain works.

Today 19:22 AgnesSkinner

So why did Wales vote Leave?
Because they are sensible.

Bear - have you read the thread at all? 'it's leavers complete refusal to discuss the actual problems that is the real issue here' - what utter bollocks!!
Have you not been following the discussion about the GFA and the NI/Irish border or was that a complete figment of my imagination?

Yescorcory, I have read the thread and I’m eagerly awaiting your views on how the NI situation can be resolved.

Would you care to share?

I'd rather be paying for a workable solution to the NI border issue than the pension any Eurocrat.

But the north of Ireland wouldn't be in need of 'workable solutions' if it weren't for Brexit. Frankly, the solution we've got now is expensive enough, in terms of human lives primarily, but also £££. And we only found this solution after decades of careful negotiation - I just don't see that the year and a half we've got until Brexit day is enough time to find a new one, when no-one has any idea how it could satisfy both sides of the NI community and therefore continue with peace.

The current treaty (GFA) entwines Britain and Ireland (and therefore EU) so closely together, in the best interests of the north, that I quite see why some Unionists opposed it so strongly. Some of those people (Gove, members of the DUP, etc...) now have potentially more power than they did back then, which is worrying.

MelodyvonPeterswald

The majority on the island of Ireland do not want Brexit

I'm sure that is the case for all the net beneficiaries of EU funding.

So Wales voting Leave doesn’t follow your theory does it? With Wales being a net beneficiary of EU funding an’ all.

I'd rather be paying for a workable solution to the NI border issue than the pension any Eureaucrat.

NI had a workable solution. It was called the Good Friday Agreement. Now the Brexiteers have come along and jeopardized that against the wishes of the majority of people on the island of Ireland.

So Wales voting Leave doesn’t follow your theory does it? With Wales being a net beneficiary of EU funding an’ all

Wales is not a member if the EU. The UK is. And with Germany, we have been bankrolling the EU for long enough. Lets see how long the patience of German tax payers lasts with the economic creativity of Southern Europe.

Lets see how long the patience of German tax payers lasts with the economic creativity of Southern Europe.

Back to the Brexit domino effect are we? Probably happen around the same time Turkey joins the EU.

Why don't you want Turkey to join Ghost?

*Wales is not a member if the EU. The UK is.”

The island of Ireland is not a member of the EU either, is it? Wales is still a net beneficiary from the EU, so why did they vote Leave? How is it “sensible” if Wales gets more from the EU then it contributes?

The island of Ireland is not a member of the EU
Correct. So it's a meaningless concept
How is it sensible?
Because we know how to invest our own taxes far better than sending it to Brussels / Strasbourg to go through the layers of corruption and bureaucracy.

GhostofFrankGrimes
What have you got against Turkey joining the EU?

So it's a meaningless concept

Well it’s your meaningless concept since it was your reply to GhostofFrankGrimes.

Because we know how to invest our own taxes far better than sending it to Brussels / Strasbourg to go through the layers of corruption and bureaucracy.

There has been nothing stopping the UK Government from investing in depressed parts of the UK - apart from a lack of any political will to do so. Good luck in thinking that will change just because we’re leaving the EU.

Well there’ll be over million more per week available after we leave.

And the eu doesn’t subsidise Wales - the U.K. does - what with being a net contributor and all.

Why don't you want Turkey to join Ghost?

Eh? It was leave that had an issue with Turkey "Turkey (population 76 million) is joining the EU - vote Leave, Take back control". I think it was part of project fear.

Well there’ll be over million more per week available after we leave.

I can't wait for the austerity mad Tories to sprinkle this mystical money over the deprived parts of the UK.

Let’s face it , Brexiteers wasted a lot of time wittering on about Turkey and not enough time coming up with ideas about the border in NI. Ironic really given that one is just vote winning hyperbole and one is a very real problem to sort out RIGHT NOW.

GhostofFrankGrimes
I am asking a very simple couple of questions. You brought up Turkey (in this particular thread), so it is fair to enquire where you and other Remainers stand.

1. Would you like Turkey to join the EU? (YES / NO)
2. If not, why jot?

FrankGrimes brought up Turkey because you brought up the Brexit Domino effect. She did it to illustrate the point that Brexit domino was not going to happen, and nor was the accession of Turkey.

It was the Leave campaign who presented the imminent accession of Turkey as a scary stick to beat people with. When they knew full well, because they aren't thick, that Turkey had at that time only met 1 out of 36 criteria necessary for joining. Turkey has since gone backwards - they will not be allowed to join until they are, amongst many other things, a functioning democracy. Also, Leave presented the UK as powerless to prevent Turkey from joining - a blatant lie, since the UK had a veto.

That clear enough?

No. It doesn’t have sufficient democratic processes and protections in place. When it does/if it does I will reconsider.
I’m a Remainer.
Why do you think Remainers don’t think that?

When people who voted to leave the EU put forward arguments based on democratic accountability, it raises a red flag to anyone who knows something about investor protection provisions of standard FTAs (given that our government is now running around offering to sign FTAs with anyone who moves).

The classic example is veolia v Egypt, in which this waste management sued the gov of Egypt for putting up the national minimum wage - 'making changes to national legislation' in breach of the terms of the FTA.

As with all such disputes, the claim is heard in secret, no third parties eg worker representatives, have a right of audience, and no information about outcome or compensation is published.

This is where we are heading everyone.

2 million people signed the petition stopping TTIP in its tracks, and I can't help suspecting that many of these were leave supporters, based on valid concerns about democratic accountability. But what is around the corner is TTIP on steroids and therefore arguments about parliamentary sovereignty and democratic accountability are hollow and misleading.

Oh OK...

And for people like our OP, who regularly shares with us how he or she makes a living, hobby, retirement or whatever, 'watching the bond markets', issues such as the loss of the ability to change your laws that comes from signing FTAs, especially from a position of weakness, should be of no concern, because at least in the short term, shrewd bond investors will no doubt be ok, and may even profit from the uncertainty.

Let’s face it , Brexiteers wasted a lot of time wittering on about Turkey and not enough time coming up with ideas about the border in NI. Ironic really given that one is just vote winning hyperbole and one is a very real problem to sort out RIGHT NOW.

I think it was more incumbent upon the Remain campaign to highlight the NI conundrum tbh.

Why on earth would a campaign which is trying to persuade people to leave the eu highlight problems?

Please do prove me wrong however, and point me to the myriad attempts by David Cameron et al. to prioritise NI pre referendum.

Brexit domino was not going to happen

Well only time will tell. Without the UK, Germany is left as the sole net contributor of any real significance. The real test will be for how ling the German taxpayer is willing to prop up the banking system in Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Portugal, Spain. The Eurozone is fundamentally flawed (North vs South)..let's see...

The problem they face is the timely coincidence of Brexit with the Euro-crisis. They know that it is impossible to push the southern European countries towards the market reforms necessary to enable their economic survival inside the Eurozone. They have tried and failed repeatedly. However the Euro is of such centrality in the ideological edifice they have erected that it is being defended come hell and high water even in the face of complete absurdity, unsustainable cost and life threatening risks. The Euro however is the time bomb that will likely blow up the European institutions in a single cataclysmic event. I am convinced it will do so during the next German government’s term in office.

Dr Markus Krall

think it was more incumbent upon the Remain campaign to highlight the NI conundrum tbh.

TBH, NI was waved away as a concern by leavers. Trade deals were going to be easy. Good to see leavers now washing their hands of any pending shit storm.

Why on earth would a campaign which is trying to persuade people to leave the eu highlight problems?

and therein lies the paradox. Brexit was all about patriotism and the best interests of the UK. Realistically it is anything but.

Please do prove me wrong however, and point me to the myriad attempts by David Cameron et al. to prioritise NI pre referendum.

I think you'll find remainers have very little time for David Cameron and his misguided decision to call a referendum.