Where do you realistically think we go from here?

[Bearbehind]

So Amber Rudd says 'no deal is unthinkable' and David Davis says the opposite.

DD also says we'd only agree to a transition period if the terms of our deal were known before hand.

The EU are still insisting the 3 priorities are addressed before talks can move to trade so basically we're at a stand off.

Something has to give at some point.

Regardless of what you want to happen, what do you think will actually happen.

I think we will walk away from the talks, all hell will break loose when the repercussions of that come to the fore and we'll end up staying in the EU in some capacity but in a much weaker position than before.

"No, you're ignoring the problems as ever."

Ah, so our brexit problem is importing tea from Kenya. Why didnt you say

I think you got off very lightly for that comment.

I don't know about you, but I really liked that comment. It was very clear and very much to the point.

It was certainly illuminating. However being NI Catholic I have a particular loathing for internment suggestions. Even as a joke (which I don't think this was?) it sends a shiver down my spine.

caroline instead of just persuing your own agenda could you answer the questions actually posed?

Somerville
If I’d said all diehard remainers should be locked up & the key thrown away then I’d agree with you - but I didn’t, I said they should all go & live on an island somewhere ( example I gave is actually a nice island so they’d be fine )
But you can’t really pull me on that comment when leavers have been grouped into the ‘thick’ ‘racist’ ‘shouldn’t be allowed to vote’ category since the ref result.

Anyway, all this derailing is not fair on the other posters so let’s call it a day.
My spelling is crap - so fucking what.

You missed my point on regulatory bodies, Caroline. I work in highly regulated industry, we have uk regulations based in EU directives. Fine, we can keep these.

The problem is here the systems we use and how integrated we are into the EU. In my work we have to report safety events on a regular basis and submit documents to regulatory bodies. We use EU based Platforms to do this. If we leave the EU without a rather detailed deal then we will presumably no longer be able to do this. Our regulatory body will have to set up its own web-based system instead which, if you've ever used government IT systems, you'll know will take forever and likely be shite. We'll probably have to go back to sending documents by DVD as we had to before they started using the EU system (this was surprisingly recently). As an individual institute will have to submit safety reports to two bodies instead of one if we want to continue to work with sites in the EU. Both these examples on their own are small, but multiply it over many regulatory bodies, systems, companies, institutes, hospitals etc and it mushrooms. It also makes it less attractive to run our work in Europe and vice versa.

This is what we are looking at, an epic task and a major loss of efficiency unless the government strikes a sensible and comprehensive deal.

But you can’t really pull me on that comment when leavers have been grouped into the ‘thick’ ‘racist’ ‘shouldn’t be allowed to vote’ category since the ref result.

Eh, you genuinely think you should be exempt from criticism because, in your opinion, some leavers have been called racist or thick?

That's too funny.

But Bolshy , you're just scaremongering

Same as all the other pesky experts, like those in the airline industry pointing out the risk to commercial flights through no longer being part of Open Skies, or the Port of Dover highlighting potential issues or the Freight Forwarding Association expressing concern or the Nuclear Medicine practitioners worried about the implications of withdrawing from Euratom or....... you get the picture

Confusing IT suppliers isnt the issue Bolshy. The issue with software licencing will always be there. Suggesting the EU 'own' the software and the systems is wrong. They dont. How do you currently for example get your prescription? The systems set up for prescribing and label printing in your local pharmacy are probably 1 of 3 suppliers. Another supplier provides your till/cash software, another supplier provides your stock systems. Some stand alone, some integrate, but all of them are used under licence to the original 'supplier'. The UK doesnt apply to the EU to 'use' their systems. The EU dont 'own' software and systems. Software and platforms, arent the issue.

My point is, we are members of those regulatory bodies, independant of our membership of the EU. Suggesting we will be kicked out on brexit day is fundamentally wrong.

PS Can I just point out, that that screen shot of a Dr Caroline Johnson, is not me. (Despite the shared name) Id hate for her to receive some unneccesary attention from an over excitable social media, assuming a link.

"We'll probably have to go back to sending documents by DVD as we had to before they started using the EU system"

To be clear, this is, utterly unfounded and ill informed scaremongering, on a par with, we best all buy typewriters. And its from someone allegedly within the industry. Bolshy, instead of using your 'probably' assumptions, and assuming who does what when you switch your screen on in a morning, go up the chain and find out. It will allay your fears and incorrect assumptions.

I love the way that Caroline knows better than people who work in specific industries and have day to day experience.

I don't think that is wrong if we exit with no deal Caroline. Like every other Non EU country, this will have to be agreed formally to ensure equivalence.

Prescription services are really not a good example. These are massive systems used in 28 different countries. They have taken an extremely long time to set up and we can't just pinch them! This is not provided by an independent supplier.

Do you realise how underfunded IS is in government?! Have you actually watched them rolling out their own systems, which are very rarely fit for service. Even when they can afford to outsource IS they do it on the cheap and it all goes to pot.

The issue is not just IS services, its reporting and integration of systems so that we can easily work with the EU. Again, we can maintain this but it requires formal agreement surely! Yeah, we can continue using their reporting system but if we haven't formally agreed that we're all working to the same regs then it's pointless, isn't it?

To be clear, this is, utterly unfounded and ill informed scaremongering, on a par with, we best all buy typewriters. And its from someone allegedly within the industry

FFS caroline stop being such a fucking know it all.

What gives you the right you tell a person they are incorrect about a problem they are personally facing?

You never, ever address any questions dealing with Brexit related.

If it were as simple as you reckon we wouldn't be in the mess we are currently in.

I'm reverting to my previous tactic of ignoring you and hoping you don't post on threads I'm on because it's truly pointless engaging with you.

Sorry, allegedly works in the industry.

"I love the way that Caroline knows better than people who work in specific industries and have day to day experience."

Ahhh, thank you Peregrina, and so right so many times. Im a mystery. How?! Who?!

^^ Brexit related problems

Aint anonymity a bitch

The fact that Caroline can only answer with sarcasm tells you a lot.

"Have you actually watched them rolling out their own systems, which are very rarely fit for service."

I do love it when you start impinging on my areas, the answer is yes. Absobloodylutely.

*Ok so bullying of a group is acceptable, pointing out spelling/grammar mistakes of An individual is not.

Thanks for clarifying, surfer.*

Humps - considering you had a suspension last week for repeatedly having a go at & hounding another poster I’d probs not start trying to claim the moral high ground tbh.

I think the last couple of pages of this thread demonstrate exactly where brexit is going - more arguments, more falling out and more bullying. And don't forget, it's got to get worse before it can get better.

The day after the referendum I woke up with the biggest sense of doom and dread I've ever felt. I'm still living with that. Brexiters don't care that lots of people feel like that, they won and we just need to get over it, get on with it and work together. I don't feel able to do that.

Caroline's arguments about EU regulations actually show how Brexit can never be a success. Too many different people with completely opposing views on what they think is an acceptable future. Caroline may think it's perfectly acceptable to carry on using EU regulations as they stand but many outspoken Brexiters have loudly disagreed with her. Norman Tebbitt and Nigel Lawson, for example, have publicly declared their glee at a supposed "bonfire of the regulations", which they believe will save us loadsamoney. See also James Dyson and his oft-quoted opposition to those tedious environmental regulations that stop him from selling more powerful vacuum cleaners that he could doubtless sell at elevated prices.

lljk, you can see the difficulties discussing on here, and oversimplifying. But, WTO do indeed get complex if you raise your tariffs, if you act protectionist. The opposite is true if you reduce or remove. (Unless, for want of a better phrase, you are simply doing so as a 'loss leader' against say one country). Thats where the rules on 'most favoured nation' kick in. If you offer 2% tariff to Australia, but expect to demand 10% tariffs from Germany, for the same products, you cant do that. The same lower tariff must apply to all.

Its a minefield going up, increasing, which is where most alarmist articles come from. That the UK is immediately going to say double their tariffs and get all protectionist. Thats when the mess over individual nations, objections, jumping through hoops and yes years to resolve, comes from. Its unfounded. The UK wouldnt and youre quite right, couldnt, increase tariffs without a right mess. No one has said they would, and theres no reason whatsoever they would.

A slight digression but heres food for thought. Lets just say the UK left without a deal, and thrived. Just consider a tiny possibility that that may happen. Where does that leave the EU and its efforts to stop an exodus of states out the door? There are 2 issues to this, 1/ yes the UK can go 'no deal'. Its absolutely possible, and its absolutely possible we can thrive. And 2/ The EU cannot allow that to happen. The rhetoric from Brussels will slowly change.

Bowlingshoes, any supplier selling into the EU will have to abide by the EUs rules and regs. No one has ever said otherwise.