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Brexit

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Where have all the Brexiters gone?

728 replies

MsHooliesCardigan · 10/10/2017 04:51

Just that really. 52% voted to leave. I know Mumsnet isn't completely representative of the electorate but you would expect at least a few people to be banging the Brexit drum. The ones that were quite vocal seem to have lost their voice. Perhaps they're just bored with the whole thing but their silence really is deafening.

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PlausibleSuit · 12/10/2017 15:36

Sorry, Bear, but your response to Rufus makes it sound like you are just here for the scrap. Read the last few pages; this isn't a debate. It's half a dozen people chucking the same shit back and forth and pretending the other side made it stink. Any poster who weighs in with any observation or attempt at conciliatory or constructive analysis - on either side - gets ignored so the same six people can continue to play the 'oh look, a remainer/Brexiteer who...' game.

No one here has a Delorean in the shed so the vote from last year can't be changed, and it's looking unlikely we'll get another one. As they say in Keighley, the shit's been shat. So at one level, it doesn't matter who voted L and who voted R.

So instead of chucking mud about a decision that the vast majority of folk made with limited information but in good faith and with the future of their families and communities in mind, we have to raise the standard of debate; ensure this government navigates this process properly. And we have to charge the opposition with holding their feet to the fire. At the moment no one is doing either of these things. Any political decision and process is open to abuse by opportunistic fringe elements and Brexit is no different. We, as the people who will be affected by the decision, have to stand together to make sure it is done right.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 12/10/2017 15:51

I agree with plausible (who said it better)

Obviously Smile

PlausibleSuit · 12/10/2017 15:56

I feel like I'm having a go now and I'm not (or at least, it wasn't my intention). I just get frustrated with the sniping. I come from a family of six brothers; four of whom voted to remain and two to leave. For the sake of general decorum and Christmas etc we had to find common ground pretty quickly!

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 12/10/2017 16:01

I dont think bear is generally unreasonable on these threads by anymeans

Bearbehind · 12/10/2017 16:05

To be fair I did think rufus meant me despite being the fact I do try hard not to bunch people into one group.

I'm not sure which Remainers have been grouping people together on this thread and I do think it's a bit rich saying people are 'fucking childish' though.

I'm certainly not just here for the scrap; I'm here to try and understand where we are heading and why.

Sadly Leavers cannot answer those questions, because they either do not care or genuinely don't have a clue what the answers might be if it's not 'carry on regardless'

I agree this thread has been full of pointless bickering but, probably without exception the bickering is a result of a question being asked of a Leaver which they cannot/ do not answer and go off on a tangent to try and detract from that fact.

Yesterday I responded to every line of a post by m4 and he completely ignored my response in favour of being a GF and saying how much he'd enjoyed his day i.e. how much he'd enjoyed winding people up.

Same again today; no meaningful discussion just a load of provactive rhetoric like 'Remainers don't have a soul'

Bearbehind · 12/10/2017 16:07

sorry rufus, you've just defended me and I've had a pop at you Blush

I'm just mightily pissed off at Leavers just being deliberately provactive and not giving a toss what's happening.

Carolinesbeanies · 12/10/2017 16:07

"carolines post bore me to tears. It's all well and good listing everything the nasty EU do but it does nothing to resolve the problem of how we actually Brexit and how we deal with the consequences."

Theres a simple answer to that Bear. You strut round these threads, demanding leave voters justify themselves (come out come out where ever you are) whilst squeeling how "appalled you are" at the ignorance of leave voters for voting that way, and demanding to know why did you vote leave in the first place.... justify yourselves to us!! (repeat ad hominem)

Change your tune.

TheElementsSong · 12/10/2017 16:08

'Remainers don't have a soul'

TBF, being an atheist, I'm quite happy to say that I don't have a soul Grin

Bearbehind · 12/10/2017 16:13

Me changing my tune won't make you change from endlessly listing the failings of the EU without giving a moments thought to how we get out of the mess we are now in caroline

I don't care what motivated people to vote Leave anymore, it doesn't matter now.

What matters is how we move forward and no Leavers round here seems to have any clue what that might look like because they simply aren't acknowledging the complications or they don't care about them.

surferjet · 12/10/2017 16:16

You’re completely right PlausibleSuit but that’s not how humans work.
If we all just accepted things & walked away smiling what a wonderful world this would be < bursts into song > But people like arguing ( prime ministers question time for example ) it’s kinda normal really.

Bearbehind · 12/10/2017 16:16

whilst squeeling how "appalled you are" at the ignorance of leave voters for voting that way

Again deliberately misinterpreting me there caroline

I'm not 'appalled at all voters for voting that way'

I am appalled at people like surfer who acknowledge the shit is probably going to hit the fan at some point but doesn't not care because it won't affect them- I don't think that is an unreasonable reaction to that sentiment though.

M4Dad · 12/10/2017 16:17

Yesterday I responded to every line of a post by m4 and he completely ignored my response in favour of being a GF

Apologies for that. The exact same happened to me yesterday with a Remainer, I kind of gave up after that.

Bearbehind · 12/10/2017 16:22

the exact same happened to me yesterday with a Remainer, I kind of gave up after that.

So basically you have no intention of interacting with any Remainers on this thread because you've 'given up' with them and are just here to continue winding them up- good to hear that.

M4Dad · 12/10/2017 16:25

Pretty much like you, Bear.

Sandycarrots · 12/10/2017 16:33

I replied to you on the other thread in detail (tried to be balanced and polite too) M4Dad and you didn't get back to me as promised either. Not a problem but I agree with Rufus - I find the goadiness on these threads horrible because it mimics too closely the play-fighting that is taking place currently within the government - fiddling while Rome burns.

Carolinesbeanies · 12/10/2017 16:47

Bear, you have no intention of moving forward. But if you did, then yesterdays sky poll would enlighten you a tad.

Some dodgy geezer is offering me £500 for my £10,000 car and telling me I cant advertise on autotrader until I agree to put his mother up on my couch for 5 years.

Does that help where I stand?

Where have all the Brexiters gone?
WiseDad · 12/10/2017 16:51

Hi everyone but especially bearbehind. I am still waiting for you to reply to my first post. You dismissed my housing analogy as poor and ignored everything else. Given I said in my post the analogy was poor you hardly moved the debate on. Indeed this was your longest and most thoughtful contribution, to pick on something I said was weak and ignoring everything else.

Lower down you said you dismissed all that I said on the basis of the comment on the tampon tax. The point about the tampon tax obviously escaped you. The British government had to get EU approval to zero rate female sanitary products. Why is that a good thing? In what world does such a minor detail on the overall scheme of taxation merit senior government minister's time and energy debating and persuading the EU secretariat of the merits of the argument in favour of abolition?

Missing the point is seen quite often. You have had detailed responses to your query that touch on sovereignty, fiscal policy, foreign policy and trade policy and many other things. You ignore every last one.

One has to wonder what you are trying to achieve. Your open derision about Leave voters and your correspondents tells us much of your attitude but little on your thoughts on the points made. Your posts tell us little of why you think Brexit is such a bad idea in the first place.

m4dad points out the non-financial arguments. You ignore them.

I point out the weaknesses in the models used to assess the benefits and downsides. You ignore me.

We point out the EU position is quite understandable if a tad hypocritical and self defeating (tariffs are paid by the importer after all, stopping your citizens buying the best of something is hardly increasing their welfare etc). You ignore this as well.

The parameters to discuss the pros and cons have been set out again and again but you don't engage. Rather ironic given the first responses from leavers to this thread were that they were tired of a lack of engagement by Remain supporters on issues of substance.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 12/10/2017 16:52

bear

Thanks
frumpety · 12/10/2017 16:53

I guess it depends if no Brexit deal means actually not brexiting at all , wonder how the question was put ?

MichaelFabricantsHair · 12/10/2017 16:59

The shit's been shat Love this Grin

Bearbehind · 12/10/2017 17:05

wisedad, if you repost your question I'll answer it.

Bearbehind · 12/10/2017 17:06

Some dodgy geezer is offering me £500 for my £10,000 car and telling me I cant advertise on autotrader until I agree to put his mother up on my couch for 5 years.

WTAF caroline

I literally have no idea what planet you are on?

WiseDad · 12/10/2017 17:09

Msg 299 of this thread! Plus following ones

Bearbehind · 12/10/2017 17:14

Sorry wisedad but I'm not counting messages to work out which one you mean.

Why can't you repost it?

If it's a question about the why's and wherefores of people's votes, we're way past that anyway.

It doesn't matter if I thought Brexit was a bad idea, which I did predominatintly because there was no actual plan for leaving, so no decision to make IMO. the vote was to Leave so we need to deal with that.

I simply want to have a discussion about where we are heading, how we will deal with the consequences and why it's going to be worth it.

Why is that such a problem for the people who chose this path?

JKR123 · 12/10/2017 17:16

Completely agree with gamerchick and wisedad. I can't be bothered to get into an argument where I will get shouted down. I've got relatives who came to visit shortly after the referendum. They assumed we had voted remain and we had to sit there and listen to mil banging on about how people only voted out because they are racist Hmm We didn't bother to saying anything - what would be the point?

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