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Brexit

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?

970 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/10/2017 12:32

And so the Zombie PM lives on.

Some might say that the Tory Party conference has been the thing that has really killed her, with one more blow needed to the head.

But had she already lost the battle within the party?

What is curious is how its now the hard liners who have got behind May. Why is this? They did so BEFORE the conference, not after May's speech. They are not known for suffering those they see as weak. They are there for target practice. Why have leopards seemingly changed their spots?

The truth is that just before and after her Florence speech Boris Johnson repeatedly undermined her and showed his authority was superior to May's. He may have backed down publically, but May backed down with policy, doing u-turns on her 'concessions' to the EU. Johnson was leading May and the Tory Party and not the other way around. That's what the conference was about and May's bad luck just played to their agenda.

May could be likened to the elderly Hindenburg, desperately trying to cling to power, and trying to appease the far right on the advise of von Papen who thought it could be controlled and contained. Whilst the right push it further and further, after each concession to them which they take as weakness, for their own political gain and shot at power. What would a successful far right leader in this country have to look like? A cut price Churchill pushing the values of fake patriotism? The historical parallel isn't hard to find and to fit to the political reality of today.

The irony emerging is that the EU Commission is starting to look like its more on our side than the EU27, tired of our nonsense and insults.

In this situation there can be no deal. Unless something drastic happens we are headed directly for a state of emergency.

The much forgotten and equally important dealing over the WTO is going as badly as the EU one. What do we expect with Liam Fox in charge and next to no accountability from the press or from parliament?

The hard right, obviously are making the calculated gamble that they have seized the hostage May away from the Liberals who had started to get her to see the reality. They will now do what they can to protect her, and support her. Afterall, why would you challenge her, if you felt you could control her? They have the perfect scapegoat and can protect their own political hides for the time being.

The most obvious sign of this, is Gove leaping to her defence in a way that is so ridiculously over the top.

The hard right have nothing to fear from a chaotic exit. Indeed they have much to profit from it. And they always have the means to leave if it gets too bad. They fear staying in the EU. Why IS that? Its almost as if many of them have something to hide...

Grants Shapp's intervention, is beginning to look like he was set up, with it being leaked that he was leading calls for a leadership election privately and had no intention of doing so publically until outted. The effect has been it has shored up her position, making it harder for May to even to resign either for personal or political reasons. It also casts any dissenters as 'traitors' whilst the hard right casts the image of the 'loyalists'.

Of course the hard right's gamble also rests on three other things; they know they are starting to lose the argument, they have done the maths and don't think they will have the numbers to ensure a hard right candidate makes the final two in a leadership battle and they think they can control the rest of the party because they fear Corbyn more.

Perhaps the best chance we have for a deal now does lie in a collapse of the government in the near future. This seems to be the position that the EU are taking by stepping up talks with Labour.

Just how much will Tory Liberals act in the best interests of the country and stand up to the hard right of the party. They have the numbers to get things through with Labour. But Labour want the government to collapse, so the balance of power ultimately relies on the hard right's support. Its hard to envisage Labour stepping up in the national interest any more than the Tory Right compromising.

I suspect the Hard Right ultimately fear the EU more than Corbyn. If a collapse happens it will be because the hard right will not compromise and they are prepared to push their luck on that, and this is the weapon they have over May. I suspect they figure they have little to lose by pursuing this direction. Its do or die for them anyway.

Of course what happens at home and what happens in the EU talks are also different things. The UK could well be promising more than they say at home, and this seems to be the case. But the infighting at home, jeopardises a deal even if one is reached by the EU commission as our diplomatic appearance through our antics and rhetoric at home, will convince the EU27 to reject it, and any compromise. Another gamble the Tory Right might be keen on to win over the domestic audience with their faux patriotism.

Of course, May could simply resign... She won't. She's a politician who lacks self awareness and arrogant in her own political ambition. A bit of a pep talk about how great she is and how she is doing things right and she believes it, as she is totally disconnected from the reality of things as the election proved in all its glory. She only listens to voices she agrees with...

So the Zombie PM lead by the De Facto PM will limp on. Its a game of chicken over who will lead to a collapse of government now between the liberals and the hard right.

At least for now. A leadership election is what is wanted by the press but not the party. The media want the drama more than the Tories.

If it hasn't changed within a month or so, the moment may have passed and it might be too late to salvage anything, such is the damage being done to our diplomatic relations. Start prepping in serious by Christmas, if we are still headed this way.

Please tell me, my reading of the situation is wrong...

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RedToothBrush · 09/10/2017 13:07

Nick Gutteridge‏*@nick*_gutteridge
1/ Senior EU diplomat gives a fairly glum prognosis of what to expect from this week's Brexit talks. Says there are still significant divergences on citizens' rights and the Brexit bill.
2/ On citizens' rights, there are four problem areas. These are: Exporting of benefits after Brexit, role of the ECJ, family reunification and the UK's new 'settled status' offer.
3/ On the financial settlement, there will once again only be technical talks between BUDG and the Treasury this week, no negotiating. Says UK and EU tried negotiating in the first two rounds on this topic and got nowhere.
4/ Ireland, however, sounds more promising. The two sides are currently 'checking the drafting' of an agreement on the CTA. They're also working well to sure Brexit doesn't 'endanger the continuity' of the GFA.
5/ Concludes: 'We hope to make some progress on a few sets of issues [but] clearly we don’t have sufficient progress. That’s where we stand and we won’t stand somewhere [else] at the end of the week, but let’s see.'

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RedToothBrush · 09/10/2017 13:09

Nick Gutteridge‏**@nick**_gutteridge (Brussels correspond for the Daily EXPRESS website. They actually have one of these!!!!)
So May's team brief all the Sunday newspapers that she's compromised as much as she's going to and the 'balls in the EU's court'. Then Davis doesn't turn up for the Brexit talks on the Monday. Coincidence? No chance...

Nick Gutteridge‏**@nick**_gutteridge
Update: @DExEUgov spokeswoman says Davis not in Brussels because he has 'parliamentary business' in UK. Agenda was fully agreed with Barnier last week.

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Cailleach1 · 09/10/2017 13:23

A clean break in 2019 would be preferable to the mess they want to draw us into.

From that article. So a cliff edge scenario would be clean with no repercussions. And when there are repercussions, they will just blame somebody or something else.

Anne-Marie Treveylan was on the Sunday Politics. After Heseltine spoke, she came on. Said Heseltine 'has always been a man who supported that vision of a 'single European state'." He most certainly should have been back on to say something about that. The implication was the 28 member states were something he didn't believe in. Wanted all the states to lose sovereignty. No more France or Germany or Italy etc. Even though her own PM outlined how the UK has always been a sovereign state when a member of the EU.

Treveylan also said "The misconceptions that the remain campaign seemed to feed at the time were so frustrating because that is not what being outside the EU means" . What did it mean, Anne Marie? Where is the paper outlining what it meant exactly? 'cos nobody can agree now. I wonder if the outright lies by the Leave campaign frustrated her at all? Maybe not if she said Heseltine supported the vision of one single European state. She didn't say he supported a European Union of 28 different member states. Just a single European state.

DrivenToDespair · 09/10/2017 13:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

woman11017 · 09/10/2017 13:42

North's blog is really concerning.
It's a choice for news sources between the conspiracies of JJ Patrick to the fury of North!

Dunt is aiming to keep it light but...........

@IanDunt
Prep for no-deal: hiring customs officials, expanding roads at Irish border, setting up control posts, leasing buildings for regulators.

These are the things to look out for. If there are details in position papers today about how that would be done and when, it is meaningful

If not then it's just the usual wank from a govt which mistakes tantrums for strategy.

Course, if they put details about an Irish border in these papers, the political world will shit itself into oblivion. So they won't.

And there's the rub of the whole shoddy exercise: consequences of what we're doing are so dreadful it's not palatable to say them out loud.

So we keep on not preparing for the default outcome, because to do so would concede that the default outcome is catastrophic.

And yet by failing to prepare for it, we weaken our position in negotiations. I dunno man, it's almost like this is a terrible idea.

woman11017 · 09/10/2017 13:47

Great post on Celtic languages and colonialism earlier, Cailleach1
It exposes the English as subsequent migrants of later wave of incomers absolutely.

LurkingHusband · 09/10/2017 14:00

The increasing fear on North's blog is really concerning.

It's hard not to feel a tiny bit sorry for the tiny minority of people who advocated leaving from a position of research, knowledge, understanding, and ability. Because in a way their chips have been lost in a waterfall of piss. It's a shame no one warned them before the vote that since no one had the faintest clue what leave meant, they were unlikely to be happy.

LurkingHusband · 09/10/2017 14:09

Trouble for BAe

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-41556207

More than 1,000 jobs are set to be axed by defence contractor BAE Systems, the BBC understands.
The firm is expected to make an announcement on Tuesday regarding the cuts, which are thought to mainly affect its two plants in Lancashire.

(contd)

Brexit driven ?

RandomlyGenerated · 09/10/2017 14:33

Warton and Samlesbury contribute to the Eurofighter Typhoon - Samlesbury builds the fuselage and Warton assembles for the ME markets. Not Brexit related though apparently - it's a slow down in production and the delay of a potential Saudi contract.

prettybird · 09/10/2017 14:37

I just can't get my head around the sticking their head in the sand/fingers in their ears/head up their bum/pick the metaphor of your choice lack of understanding that the EU is a rules based organisation and that it is not up to us to dictate that they should just change their rules to accommodate the UK just because we don't like them and they are going to cause us problems. (

prettybird · 09/10/2017 14:48

BigChocFrenzy - my "prepping" - basic as it is Grin - is really just to tide us over if necessary those first few chaotic weeks Wink

And I l've still got my raised veg beds in the garden Grin

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2017 15:02

Sam Coates Times‏*@SamCoatesTimes*

Interesting and important split between Brexiteers - Nadhim Zahawi says “no advantages” to “no deal”

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?
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Theworldisfullofidiots · 09/10/2017 15:06

North and Norgrove are infuriating. What did they think was going to happen? Criminally naive.

LurkingHusband · 09/10/2017 15:15

Interesting and important split between Brexiteers - Nadhim Zahawi says “no advantages” to “no deal”

At least one thing the lies (whoppers !) of the Leavers have done is engineer a situation where Brexit must be better than what we have now.

That's must be better. With a killer punch of immediately.

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2017 15:30

Julie Girling‏*@juliegirling*

My statement following withdrawal of Conservative whip over the weekend #Brexit

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?
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RedToothBrush · 09/10/2017 16:01

The Guardian‏*@guardian*

We can no longer pretend the British press is impartial | Owen Jones

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/09/no-longer-pretend-british-press-impartial-country-more-leftwing?CMP=twt_gu
We can no longer pretend the British press is impartial
The country is more leftwing than its press, which savages dissenting views and defends a discredited status quo. No wonder people look elsewhere for news

Owen Jones has a habit of annoying the crap out of me, but this article takes the biscuit!

Was it my imagination or do I remember being sat in a GSCE Media Studies lesson in 1992 being taught about how the British Press carried political bias. Not degree level. GSCE level. At a comprehensive school. It wasn't a debate either. It was taught as fact.

Obviously it was. Or I had a leftie activist teacher who was trying to brainwash me rather than trying to encourage the critical thinking needed for the subject. (This is also hilarious given what my teacher was like and his reputation).

And now 25 years later Jones - a journalist, sorry columnist with an opinion who has made a journalistic career out of his political leanings, and supposedly has a certain level of credibility and status cos he get printed in the 'right' newspaper - writes a column telling us that we should stop 'pretending' the media is politically unbiased and there is suddenly now a 'debate' about it.

Why do people rant about the Daily Mail? Are they unaware of the political bias of the Mail? Its not just because its full of tabloid stories but also because of its political leaning, which even those who haven't studied media are pretty aware of, and are fed up of.

He rants about how the print establishment are out of touch because they didn't go to comprehensive school, and then writes this patronising shit that any journalist of any quality knows - regardless of which fucking school they went to. Cos obviously no reader of his column has ever bloody worked this out. (Why would you read Owen Jones's column if you hadn't grasped this?)

And there lies the issue.

Perhaps its all the number of columnists that dominate the British Press who don't do any fucking research and just spout utter bollocks that are really are at the heart of the problem and if there were more of these, then the political bias of newspapers wouldn't be as much of an issue either. I fail to grasp why Owen is actually any more credible or better than the Canary, other that because he writes for the Guardian. Owen is just as guilty of click bait.

Fuck off, just fuck off Owen. Go back to school (a comprehensive of course) and do GSCE Media Studies.

/Rant. Grr Blood Boiling.

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IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson · 09/10/2017 16:11

Shock at My statement following withdrawal of Conservative whip over the weekend

Much, much admiration for this politician.

DrivenToDespair · 09/10/2017 16:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lalalonglegs · 09/10/2017 16:21

Owen Jones has made a career out of writing bleeding obvious articles that preach entirely to the choir: "Here's why we should oppose racism"; "Let's say no to austerity"; "Down with homophobia!" Not only are they arguments that the vast majority of Guardian readers would have come to terms with several decades ago, he further patronises his readership by implying that he is opening their eyes to some barely-imagined truth. I always think of Rik Mayall in the Young Ones whenever I accidentally stumble across one of his pieces.

The statement from Julie Girling is spot on.

LurkingHusband · 09/10/2017 16:33

Between this and the "British Dream" thing in May's speech, I am starting to wonder if a sizeable chunk of Britons are genuinely confused about what being British actual

Many years ago, I read Spalding Grays "Swimming to Cambodia" which narrates the authors experiences appearing in "The Killing Fields".

Despite Gray being American, he was surprised at how little he actually knew about Vietnam. Especially the Cambodian dimension. He noted that sometimes it takes foreigners to make us see what we don't normally see (I think the phrase was "It takes a Brit to teach you your own history"). In this case a British director and author who were untainted by the terrible schisms Vietnam wrought in the US.

Maybe part of Brexit is some British people not only not liking the fact that the EU can be dispassionately critical of Britain, but - unlike the US - we can't understand them when they are ? (See also: Trump/Mexico Hmm)

Somerville · 09/10/2017 16:33

Physical infrastructure at the Irish 'border' seems increasingly impossible to avoid.

Who volunteers to go and man it? You'd get to be amongst the first people to discover which of their weapon's the IRA didn't decommission... Don't all rush at once now.

OlennasWimple · 09/10/2017 16:37

The Julie Girling statement is pretty classy.

Owen Jones is not a journalist, I can't work out why he gets to publish his bilge so much - other than I guess people talk about him, like we are talking about him, which presumably translates into clicks on the Guardian site? (So he's basically a Littlejohn or Katie Hopkins....)

prettybird · 09/10/2017 16:46

Listening to May's speech. Hmm

What is that we as parents tell tantrumming toddlers? ...... "I want doesn't get" Hmm

prettybird · 09/10/2017 16:52

"I want a unique partnership.....waffle waffle.....deep and special......waffle waffle.....we've made a good offer to the EU......waffle, waffle......it's up to the EU to come to us with an offer.....waffle, waffle.....it will benefit them as much as it does us.....waffle, waffle.....they owe it to us to give us what we want....waffle waffle......all the debate in the media is about process......we have the vision and the EU will roll over and agree to that vision.....I commend this statement to the house"^

In a nutshell.

prettybird · 09/10/2017 16:55

Now she is repeating "smooth and orderly" in her response to Corbyn - as if saying it makes it so Hmm

Maybe she is channelling Jean Luc Picard! Grin