Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?

970 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/10/2017 12:32

And so the Zombie PM lives on.

Some might say that the Tory Party conference has been the thing that has really killed her, with one more blow needed to the head.

But had she already lost the battle within the party?

What is curious is how its now the hard liners who have got behind May. Why is this? They did so BEFORE the conference, not after May's speech. They are not known for suffering those they see as weak. They are there for target practice. Why have leopards seemingly changed their spots?

The truth is that just before and after her Florence speech Boris Johnson repeatedly undermined her and showed his authority was superior to May's. He may have backed down publically, but May backed down with policy, doing u-turns on her 'concessions' to the EU. Johnson was leading May and the Tory Party and not the other way around. That's what the conference was about and May's bad luck just played to their agenda.

May could be likened to the elderly Hindenburg, desperately trying to cling to power, and trying to appease the far right on the advise of von Papen who thought it could be controlled and contained. Whilst the right push it further and further, after each concession to them which they take as weakness, for their own political gain and shot at power. What would a successful far right leader in this country have to look like? A cut price Churchill pushing the values of fake patriotism? The historical parallel isn't hard to find and to fit to the political reality of today.

The irony emerging is that the EU Commission is starting to look like its more on our side than the EU27, tired of our nonsense and insults.

In this situation there can be no deal. Unless something drastic happens we are headed directly for a state of emergency.

The much forgotten and equally important dealing over the WTO is going as badly as the EU one. What do we expect with Liam Fox in charge and next to no accountability from the press or from parliament?

The hard right, obviously are making the calculated gamble that they have seized the hostage May away from the Liberals who had started to get her to see the reality. They will now do what they can to protect her, and support her. Afterall, why would you challenge her, if you felt you could control her? They have the perfect scapegoat and can protect their own political hides for the time being.

The most obvious sign of this, is Gove leaping to her defence in a way that is so ridiculously over the top.

The hard right have nothing to fear from a chaotic exit. Indeed they have much to profit from it. And they always have the means to leave if it gets too bad. They fear staying in the EU. Why IS that? Its almost as if many of them have something to hide...

Grants Shapp's intervention, is beginning to look like he was set up, with it being leaked that he was leading calls for a leadership election privately and had no intention of doing so publically until outted. The effect has been it has shored up her position, making it harder for May to even to resign either for personal or political reasons. It also casts any dissenters as 'traitors' whilst the hard right casts the image of the 'loyalists'.

Of course the hard right's gamble also rests on three other things; they know they are starting to lose the argument, they have done the maths and don't think they will have the numbers to ensure a hard right candidate makes the final two in a leadership battle and they think they can control the rest of the party because they fear Corbyn more.

Perhaps the best chance we have for a deal now does lie in a collapse of the government in the near future. This seems to be the position that the EU are taking by stepping up talks with Labour.

Just how much will Tory Liberals act in the best interests of the country and stand up to the hard right of the party. They have the numbers to get things through with Labour. But Labour want the government to collapse, so the balance of power ultimately relies on the hard right's support. Its hard to envisage Labour stepping up in the national interest any more than the Tory Right compromising.

I suspect the Hard Right ultimately fear the EU more than Corbyn. If a collapse happens it will be because the hard right will not compromise and they are prepared to push their luck on that, and this is the weapon they have over May. I suspect they figure they have little to lose by pursuing this direction. Its do or die for them anyway.

Of course what happens at home and what happens in the EU talks are also different things. The UK could well be promising more than they say at home, and this seems to be the case. But the infighting at home, jeopardises a deal even if one is reached by the EU commission as our diplomatic appearance through our antics and rhetoric at home, will convince the EU27 to reject it, and any compromise. Another gamble the Tory Right might be keen on to win over the domestic audience with their faux patriotism.

Of course, May could simply resign... She won't. She's a politician who lacks self awareness and arrogant in her own political ambition. A bit of a pep talk about how great she is and how she is doing things right and she believes it, as she is totally disconnected from the reality of things as the election proved in all its glory. She only listens to voices she agrees with...

So the Zombie PM lead by the De Facto PM will limp on. Its a game of chicken over who will lead to a collapse of government now between the liberals and the hard right.

At least for now. A leadership election is what is wanted by the press but not the party. The media want the drama more than the Tories.

If it hasn't changed within a month or so, the moment may have passed and it might be too late to salvage anything, such is the damage being done to our diplomatic relations. Start prepping in serious by Christmas, if we are still headed this way.

Please tell me, my reading of the situation is wrong...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
RandomlyGenerated · 17/10/2017 15:19

I think the Allegro’s square steering wheel summed up all that was great about 70s British car design.

i.e. it looked rubbish and didn’t work very well.

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 15:19

Nick Gutteridge @ nickgutteridge
1/ Very illuminating from Finnish foreign minister Samuli Virtanen. When asked if May's weakness at home is a problem for the Brexit talks: 'It is and that's one of the things that makes the situation on the negotiating process a bit difficult...
2/ ...because it seems that at the moment the EU27 is more unanimous than the UK one, so that's one of the main problems here.
3/ When we read the British press for the situation in Westminster, sometimes it's very difficult to see and understand what Britain really wants from these negotiations.'

Vlad the imp 0x30 @ vladimpatient
A Finn telling you a thing is "a bit difficult" is a dead giveaway if you've ever actually worked with one before. I'd be VERY worried.

What Vlad said.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 15:20

Kevin Schofield @ polhomeeditor
1.50pm: David Davis says no deal option must be kept on table to put pressure on Brussels.
2.40pm: Amber Rudd says no deal "unthinkable".

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 15:26

John Redwood @ johnredwood
I do not think Brexit is the main reason for the fall of the pound since 2015 nor for the recent rise of the £ against the $.

I love John's tweets. He's genuinely one of my favourite follows at the moment. He's great to see the thinking going on and understand where hard Brexiteers are.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 15:32

Just leaving this here

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?
OP posts:
LurkingHusband · 17/10/2017 15:46

I see the Cambridges are expecting ...

Was it on these very threads someone either cynically suggested that a Royal baby would be just the ticket to keep bad Brexit news off the front pages ?

Or am I thinking of posters who suggested that post-Brexit, we just needed royals squeezing out babies like peas ?

woman11017 · 17/10/2017 16:06

Just been asked to explain Thatcherism to economics studying DS. Grin 1980s thatcherite state looks like a socialist utopia compared to now.

Grin Badders 👍

Badders08 · 17/10/2017 16:20

Ive been thinking the same woman!

👍

pointythings · 17/10/2017 16:55

My dad had two Allegros one after the other. (We were always a very Anglophile family who had British cars even in Holland). Then we had two Princesses, an orange one and a tobacco brown one. We also had several Rover SD1s, right up into the mid-90s. My dad drove a Rover 45 right up to the moment he had to give up driving.

They were not all crap and the Princesses were tanks - we once got the last spot on a Channel ferry during a strike because my dad played chicken with the shiny BMW and won...

Badders08 · 17/10/2017 16:58

Omg! I forgot about the princess!
Tbh the marina never let us down til the floor fell out and we often drove merrily past bmws and mercs that had broken down on the M1 😁

LurkingHusband · 17/10/2017 17:01

a very Anglophile family who had British cars

as was a chap who lived a few doors down from us. His car was off the road for 8 months straight when some part proved unobtainable and a succession of strikes kept it that way.

EmilyAlice · 17/10/2017 17:03

We went to test drive an Austin Princess when we were changing company cars. The salesman had to take the windscreen wipers from another car because it didn't have any. He asked if we had done a test drive in anything else and when we said BMW he said, "well you won't want one of these then"....

LurkingHusband · 17/10/2017 17:22

Amber Rudd ? Traitor ....

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41655195

RandomlyGenerated · 17/10/2017 17:55

My sister totalled our Princess into a Jag - I think the Jag came off better TBF the Jag was on the wrong side of the road and was twocked.

Our local transport museum does rides in an old Police SD1.

Mightybanhammer · 17/10/2017 18:01

Time for a new thread maybe? 965...

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2017 18:09

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3062727-Westminstenders-Sucking-up-to-the-enemy?watched=1

Great Mind Mighty.

Already on the case.

OP posts:
Peregrina · 17/10/2017 19:05

My first car was a Morris 1000. Now that was a car! It was pretty reliable as far as I recall, although it did have to be cranked in cold weather, or bump started. Since I lived in the Peak District, cold weather happened often but then there were hills available for the bump starts.

HashiAsLarry · 17/10/2017 19:06

We've always been traitors it seems. I can only recall us having Volvos Blush

Motheroffourdragons · 17/10/2017 22:03

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

mathanxiety · 18/10/2017 03:46

Renaults and VWs for dad.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread