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Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?

970 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/10/2017 12:32

And so the Zombie PM lives on.

Some might say that the Tory Party conference has been the thing that has really killed her, with one more blow needed to the head.

But had she already lost the battle within the party?

What is curious is how its now the hard liners who have got behind May. Why is this? They did so BEFORE the conference, not after May's speech. They are not known for suffering those they see as weak. They are there for target practice. Why have leopards seemingly changed their spots?

The truth is that just before and after her Florence speech Boris Johnson repeatedly undermined her and showed his authority was superior to May's. He may have backed down publically, but May backed down with policy, doing u-turns on her 'concessions' to the EU. Johnson was leading May and the Tory Party and not the other way around. That's what the conference was about and May's bad luck just played to their agenda.

May could be likened to the elderly Hindenburg, desperately trying to cling to power, and trying to appease the far right on the advise of von Papen who thought it could be controlled and contained. Whilst the right push it further and further, after each concession to them which they take as weakness, for their own political gain and shot at power. What would a successful far right leader in this country have to look like? A cut price Churchill pushing the values of fake patriotism? The historical parallel isn't hard to find and to fit to the political reality of today.

The irony emerging is that the EU Commission is starting to look like its more on our side than the EU27, tired of our nonsense and insults.

In this situation there can be no deal. Unless something drastic happens we are headed directly for a state of emergency.

The much forgotten and equally important dealing over the WTO is going as badly as the EU one. What do we expect with Liam Fox in charge and next to no accountability from the press or from parliament?

The hard right, obviously are making the calculated gamble that they have seized the hostage May away from the Liberals who had started to get her to see the reality. They will now do what they can to protect her, and support her. Afterall, why would you challenge her, if you felt you could control her? They have the perfect scapegoat and can protect their own political hides for the time being.

The most obvious sign of this, is Gove leaping to her defence in a way that is so ridiculously over the top.

The hard right have nothing to fear from a chaotic exit. Indeed they have much to profit from it. And they always have the means to leave if it gets too bad. They fear staying in the EU. Why IS that? Its almost as if many of them have something to hide...

Grants Shapp's intervention, is beginning to look like he was set up, with it being leaked that he was leading calls for a leadership election privately and had no intention of doing so publically until outted. The effect has been it has shored up her position, making it harder for May to even to resign either for personal or political reasons. It also casts any dissenters as 'traitors' whilst the hard right casts the image of the 'loyalists'.

Of course the hard right's gamble also rests on three other things; they know they are starting to lose the argument, they have done the maths and don't think they will have the numbers to ensure a hard right candidate makes the final two in a leadership battle and they think they can control the rest of the party because they fear Corbyn more.

Perhaps the best chance we have for a deal now does lie in a collapse of the government in the near future. This seems to be the position that the EU are taking by stepping up talks with Labour.

Just how much will Tory Liberals act in the best interests of the country and stand up to the hard right of the party. They have the numbers to get things through with Labour. But Labour want the government to collapse, so the balance of power ultimately relies on the hard right's support. Its hard to envisage Labour stepping up in the national interest any more than the Tory Right compromising.

I suspect the Hard Right ultimately fear the EU more than Corbyn. If a collapse happens it will be because the hard right will not compromise and they are prepared to push their luck on that, and this is the weapon they have over May. I suspect they figure they have little to lose by pursuing this direction. Its do or die for them anyway.

Of course what happens at home and what happens in the EU talks are also different things. The UK could well be promising more than they say at home, and this seems to be the case. But the infighting at home, jeopardises a deal even if one is reached by the EU commission as our diplomatic appearance through our antics and rhetoric at home, will convince the EU27 to reject it, and any compromise. Another gamble the Tory Right might be keen on to win over the domestic audience with their faux patriotism.

Of course, May could simply resign... She won't. She's a politician who lacks self awareness and arrogant in her own political ambition. A bit of a pep talk about how great she is and how she is doing things right and she believes it, as she is totally disconnected from the reality of things as the election proved in all its glory. She only listens to voices she agrees with...

So the Zombie PM lead by the De Facto PM will limp on. Its a game of chicken over who will lead to a collapse of government now between the liberals and the hard right.

At least for now. A leadership election is what is wanted by the press but not the party. The media want the drama more than the Tories.

If it hasn't changed within a month or so, the moment may have passed and it might be too late to salvage anything, such is the damage being done to our diplomatic relations. Start prepping in serious by Christmas, if we are still headed this way.

Please tell me, my reading of the situation is wrong...

OP posts:
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LurkingHusband · 08/10/2017 12:21

Brandon Lewis is one of those "straight-talking" bruiser types. Remain supporter

I'm warming to him already ... (checks). shit!. He's been tainted by the Home Office.

Sorry, Brandon. Don't feel I can trust you now (you know, in the way that the rest of the world can't trust the Home Office).

lalalonglegs · 08/10/2017 12:29

He is also the housing minister who urged the government not to make sprinkler systems mandatory. He is currently immigration minister, probably better described as deportation minister.

SwedishEdith · 08/10/2017 12:32

Red what is this @electiondata* account? Did it really tweet 'Top work everyone' when an EU national tweeted that she was leaving the UK? (Your post of 9.31)
Seems unpleasant, or have I misconstrued?*

Election Data's tweet was followed with an angry face.

RedToothBrush · 08/10/2017 12:44

Hester election data is a guy with labour leaning who does work relating to voter opinions and focus groups in an independent capacity. His analysis is interesting even if its not right all the time (he got election badly wrong).

Tweet was angry but as swedish says it didn't come across on mn.

He is northern and of opinion.that labour lost its way but hes not centrist nor corbynite either. More traditional labour.

OP posts:
MsHooliesCardigan · 08/10/2017 12:46

Mother I agree that it's quite incredible what TM has managed to do. She will certainly go down in history- but not in the way she planned to. I used to be quite a fan of soaps but have stopped watching them recently as British politics is far more interesting than anything Eastenders could come up with.

MsHooliesCardigan · 08/10/2017 12:49

www.google.co.uk/search?q=john+redwood+welsh+national+anthem+video&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

John Redwood is a total cunt. I am Welsh btw.

BestIsWest · 08/10/2017 14:40

I cannot think of John Redwood without remembering that Misshoolies. I'm also Welsh.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2017 15:43

I remember watching the John Redwood miming at the time and wondering why anyone who was appointed Welsh SoS could be so breathtakingly arrogant and stupid not to learn the national anthem Confused

It's reasonable to expect as SoS that you'll be attending a huge number of events where that is played and quite probable you might need to sing it a few times.

A common theme with Ultras: too stupid & arrogant to plan for events that are highly likely to happen, not just a tiny risk.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2017 15:45

Maybe, as an English MP, he felt learning the words would be going native, treating the aborigines with respect

PattyPenguin · 08/10/2017 15:51

William Hague actually managed to learn the words of the Welsh national anthem when he was Welsh Secretary.

(In fact, he married the civil servant who tutored him, which, in my mother's immortal words, was neither a woman wasted nor a man thrown away, but we'll let that pass.)

Perhaps being from Yorkshire WH is a tad less of a tin-eared arrogant twit than your average SE English Tory.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2017 15:52

When Barnier met with ambassadors from the E27, they reportedly said greater clarity was needed on the financial settlement, the Irish border and the rights of EU citizens before the UK's future relationship with the EU could be discussed.

May's hopes that Germany or France would step in have been dashed:
Both countries will reportedly refuse to talk about a post-Brexit transition deal until the UK settles the 3 prerequisites.

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/eu-deals-blow-to-mays-transition-deal-plan/ar-AAt0wvm?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2017 15:54

I must admit to considering Hague to have been the most capable Tory leader for decades
< well, not much competition > .
Just a shame that other Tories became PM instead. imo, he would have done much better than the miserably low bar they set.

LurkingHusband · 08/10/2017 16:11

William Hague actually managed to learn the words of the Welsh national anthem when he was Welsh Secretary.

I believe the Prince of Wales also speaks Welsh.

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, Redwoods lack of learning can be seen as contempt for his constituents.

LurkingHusband · 08/10/2017 16:25

Scotland ups the ante:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41538311

Nicola Sturgeon says her government will pay a so-called "settled status" fee of any EU citizen working in the public sector in Scotland.

Prime Minister Theresa May has offered settled status to EU migrants who have lived in the UK for five years.

However, the UK government has hinted that those applying for the status will have to pay a fee.

(contd) ...

pointythings · 08/10/2017 17:00

Yeah, I'd be willing to bet that they will set the 'settled status' fee so that it's a nice little earner for the Exchequer. It still won't bring in £350/week for the NHS though...

woman11017 · 08/10/2017 17:17

A few days old but just nice Smile
@SadiqKhan

As a proud feminist, I'm delighted that we will bring the first ever statue of a woman to Parliament Square.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2017 17:24

So all the E27 citizens working as doctors, nurses, care workers, nursery staff ...... and the fruit and veg pickers
will have to pay for the privilege

... or they can can just say "bugger this for a game of soldiers" and leave
E27 countries like Germany would be a lot easier for them to move to.

Is that really the aim ?
Home Office SOP: reduction of Ew7 immigration by making the Uk a "hostile environment" for them

Contrast to Germany:
before the Single Market, back in the late 1980s I paid about DM15, equiv to €8 , for my permission to stay in Germany for 5 years.
I returned a couple of times and the document was valid, just had to be renewed every 5 years - which was FREE

My Indian colleague reports this is about the same process he went though more recently, as a citizen of a "3rd country"
Very simole and cheap for him and later for his wife (also from India)

prettybird · 08/10/2017 17:46

Don't remember paying anything when I worked in France as an assistante in 1980. I might have just forgotten and/or was exempt as I was a "student"

I do remember having to go and register at the Mairie or Hotel de ville, which was such a painless procedure I can remember none of the details Grin

I do recall that there was an issue with the type of bank account I could open as I wasn't French, but because one if the English teacher's husband/wife worked at a particular bank, I was able to open a "proper" account. (Think it meant either that I got interest or that I could have a cheque book - but it was so long ago I can no longer remember).

pointythings · 08/10/2017 17:52

BCF that would be the sensible way for this to be handles wrt to EU27 citizens in the UK. Does anyone want to bet that this is what we will end up with? Thought not...

Unescorted · 08/10/2017 18:07

Brandon Lewis was the housing minister. Not that he achieved much /anything. Starter Homes were under his watch, but he failed to secure any funding or get the secondary legislation through parliament - the one that sets out what a starter home actually is. It only got in the housing and planning act because it was David Cameron's big idea.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2017 18:17

pretty I has no problem opening a current account and a savings account in the late 80s, then getting a car loan after I'd been a customer about 1 year. And of course renting a flat
However, I was contracting, with a decent income and I am Frau Dr STEM, which gives a lot more prestige here than in England Smile

I did notice German banks seemed v old-fashioned in the 80s and 90s - clerks still doing one-handed typing on a typewriter
They've more than caught up in the meantime, very impressed by the German Postbank service, still state-owned iirc.

woman11017 · 08/10/2017 22:14

@WalesForEurope
The former U.K. Attorney General says the #EUwithdrawalbill will be challenged in the courts.

With a mischievous smile flashing across his face every few sentences, Grieve then set upon the EU Withdrawal Bill. Currently heading for its committee stage, the Bill will transpose all EU law into UK law. In an intervention which is sure to provoke anguish in No 10, Grieve suggested the government’s current approach to the Bill has left it vulnerable in the courts. As things stand, “I think there will be legal challenges,” he said

That could precipitate a constitutional crisis, holding up our exit and infuriating hard Brexiteers

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/dominic-grieve-brexit-is-a-fundamentally-unconservative-thing-to-do

Matthew Holehouse Retweeted Telegraph Premium
"The Prime Minister is being urged to sack Philip Hammond, the Chancellor, for 'making Brexit hard' and being 'miserable'.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/08/exclusive-boris-johnson-will-just-say-no-theresa-may-tries-sack/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Special investigation into weaponised data and disinformation, social media, and counter offensives

www.byline.com/column/67/article/1871

woman11017 · 08/10/2017 22:26

@nickreeves9876
Excellent thread showing how many of the EU projects Brexiters rage against were British government policy.

twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/884474494512975872

RandomlyGenerated · 08/10/2017 22:34

DH came home with this today. I was particularly pleased to note that it is produced in the EU (it is apparently the brainchild of a Polish businessman in Manchester).

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?
Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?
mathanxiety · 09/10/2017 00:48

You have it right, PattyPenguin. The winners write history, and Ireland won.

Your analogy wasn't really true however - Ireland is an island and Catalonia is not. If the earliest context you associate with Ireland is that of the 16th century (actually it was the 1600s and thus the 17th century if the wars involving England, Scotland and Ireland are what you are thinking about) you need to hit the books.