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Brexit

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?

970 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/10/2017 12:32

And so the Zombie PM lives on.

Some might say that the Tory Party conference has been the thing that has really killed her, with one more blow needed to the head.

But had she already lost the battle within the party?

What is curious is how its now the hard liners who have got behind May. Why is this? They did so BEFORE the conference, not after May's speech. They are not known for suffering those they see as weak. They are there for target practice. Why have leopards seemingly changed their spots?

The truth is that just before and after her Florence speech Boris Johnson repeatedly undermined her and showed his authority was superior to May's. He may have backed down publically, but May backed down with policy, doing u-turns on her 'concessions' to the EU. Johnson was leading May and the Tory Party and not the other way around. That's what the conference was about and May's bad luck just played to their agenda.

May could be likened to the elderly Hindenburg, desperately trying to cling to power, and trying to appease the far right on the advise of von Papen who thought it could be controlled and contained. Whilst the right push it further and further, after each concession to them which they take as weakness, for their own political gain and shot at power. What would a successful far right leader in this country have to look like? A cut price Churchill pushing the values of fake patriotism? The historical parallel isn't hard to find and to fit to the political reality of today.

The irony emerging is that the EU Commission is starting to look like its more on our side than the EU27, tired of our nonsense and insults.

In this situation there can be no deal. Unless something drastic happens we are headed directly for a state of emergency.

The much forgotten and equally important dealing over the WTO is going as badly as the EU one. What do we expect with Liam Fox in charge and next to no accountability from the press or from parliament?

The hard right, obviously are making the calculated gamble that they have seized the hostage May away from the Liberals who had started to get her to see the reality. They will now do what they can to protect her, and support her. Afterall, why would you challenge her, if you felt you could control her? They have the perfect scapegoat and can protect their own political hides for the time being.

The most obvious sign of this, is Gove leaping to her defence in a way that is so ridiculously over the top.

The hard right have nothing to fear from a chaotic exit. Indeed they have much to profit from it. And they always have the means to leave if it gets too bad. They fear staying in the EU. Why IS that? Its almost as if many of them have something to hide...

Grants Shapp's intervention, is beginning to look like he was set up, with it being leaked that he was leading calls for a leadership election privately and had no intention of doing so publically until outted. The effect has been it has shored up her position, making it harder for May to even to resign either for personal or political reasons. It also casts any dissenters as 'traitors' whilst the hard right casts the image of the 'loyalists'.

Of course the hard right's gamble also rests on three other things; they know they are starting to lose the argument, they have done the maths and don't think they will have the numbers to ensure a hard right candidate makes the final two in a leadership battle and they think they can control the rest of the party because they fear Corbyn more.

Perhaps the best chance we have for a deal now does lie in a collapse of the government in the near future. This seems to be the position that the EU are taking by stepping up talks with Labour.

Just how much will Tory Liberals act in the best interests of the country and stand up to the hard right of the party. They have the numbers to get things through with Labour. But Labour want the government to collapse, so the balance of power ultimately relies on the hard right's support. Its hard to envisage Labour stepping up in the national interest any more than the Tory Right compromising.

I suspect the Hard Right ultimately fear the EU more than Corbyn. If a collapse happens it will be because the hard right will not compromise and they are prepared to push their luck on that, and this is the weapon they have over May. I suspect they figure they have little to lose by pursuing this direction. Its do or die for them anyway.

Of course what happens at home and what happens in the EU talks are also different things. The UK could well be promising more than they say at home, and this seems to be the case. But the infighting at home, jeopardises a deal even if one is reached by the EU commission as our diplomatic appearance through our antics and rhetoric at home, will convince the EU27 to reject it, and any compromise. Another gamble the Tory Right might be keen on to win over the domestic audience with their faux patriotism.

Of course, May could simply resign... She won't. She's a politician who lacks self awareness and arrogant in her own political ambition. A bit of a pep talk about how great she is and how she is doing things right and she believes it, as she is totally disconnected from the reality of things as the election proved in all its glory. She only listens to voices she agrees with...

So the Zombie PM lead by the De Facto PM will limp on. Its a game of chicken over who will lead to a collapse of government now between the liberals and the hard right.

At least for now. A leadership election is what is wanted by the press but not the party. The media want the drama more than the Tories.

If it hasn't changed within a month or so, the moment may have passed and it might be too late to salvage anything, such is the damage being done to our diplomatic relations. Start prepping in serious by Christmas, if we are still headed this way.

Please tell me, my reading of the situation is wrong...

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Cailleach1 · 11/10/2017 00:21

On the news, it was reported that 3 jobs up and down the country will go for every job lost in BAe.

I must admit, as BAe make things like Weapon Systems and Munitions and things to do with electronic warfare, I cannot be sorry if there is any diminution in it's products.

Of course sorry to see someone lose their job, but not for any loss in killing merchandise.

On that note, wasn't it reported in one of the gov't papers that, post Brexit, the country would benefit from increased sales in the weapons industry.

mathanxiety · 11/10/2017 06:27

Contrary to Pete North's assertion, I think many commentators (here anyway) saw in the zeal of the Brexiteers a revolutionary ardour, and suspected that (1) there are unseen interests ready to take advantage of the chaos they know will attend the inevitable hard Brexit that they are pushing (Legatum, anyone?) and (2) among the most ardent Brexiteers, some sort of resetting of society and the economy including a fire sale of UK public service in return for comfortable jobs in the US corporations who will ultimately control huge chunks of the UK economy is the real agenda.

lonelyplanetmum · 11/10/2017 06:45

On that note, wasn't it reported in one of the gov't papers that, post Brexit, the country would benefit from increased sales in the weapons industry
Iirc, immediately after triggering Article Teresa May rushed to Riyadh seeking to ensure post- exit trade with Saudi Arabia.I thought at the time it was a bit of a desperate scrabble for trade for a vicar's daughter to be undertaking,but needs must.
Then, bizarrely, shortly after that Trump rushed over there too,I assumed he was competing, as he was reported to have secured a deal to sell Saudi Arabia $110bn in weapons. Or did he visit first and we copied him?
I always thought it was a bit transparent and distasteful, as both leaders (Trumpeeza) normally tend to leave travel to others, yet at a critical time domestically, they both prioritised rushing to Saudi, one after another. Yet neither of them seem to have done very much rushing elsewhere.
I assumed that we were trumped on the weapons sales, but it's all a bit distasteful and shabby to be chasing weapons sales, given we are relinquishing streamlined access to a $20.8 trillion market on.our .doorstep. Why are we doing all this grandstanding to the EU,instead of the smarmy sucking up approach we adopted in pursuit of Saudi arms sales. It all does my head in.

frumpety · 11/10/2017 06:46

It's important that we don't leave it all to the politicians. We have to think too. To inform ourselves. To demand better from our politicians. Otherwise we deserve the moral vacuum abd developing black hole that Westminster has become, that risks sucking the UK into oblivion.

So incredibly true Sad

lonelyplanetmum · 11/10/2017 06:47
  • Article 50. I didn't forget the number just trying to type fast!
lonelyplanetmum · 11/10/2017 07:26

Sorry if I'm derailing the thread but I do use this thread as therapy about the insanity..

Did any one read this article (with some excellent vocabulary) which reminded me of something else which I'd sort of missed.

Not only did Treeza try and prostitute us all simultaneously seeking a Saudi arms deal at the same time as Trump, but we made a simultaneous attempt to suck up to China too.These plans were allegedly cancelled by China! Is the Independent right about this, we were ditched in favour of a Trump visit? Why do Treeza and Trump keep trying to go to the same place, at the same time. Who is copying who?
And the rest of the article was quite amusing, inspired by an 18th century map in Davis's office :
" Today, the cocky, blustering likes of Davis, Fox and Johnson act smart to cover their idiocy. They and a huge chunk of the party they all wish to lead are yoked to this dementedly anachronistic notion of British supremacy. Like an Alzheimer’s victim, they recall every detail of the distant past in crystal clarity, but have no memory of recent events....
Europe, in fact, is bored to distraction by the drab cocktail of misplaced arrogance, dithering vagueness and mind-bending incompetence this Government is still mixing 15 months after the vote.
The EU isn’t buying the myth that Britain matters. Nor is the US, the senior partner in our new transatlantic confederacy of dunces. Nor is China, which cancelled May’s visit for Trump with the disdain of a talk show host bumping a stale old has-been for a megastar. Beyond that enclave of England that clings to the tragicomic comfort blanket of phantasmal superiority, no one is buying it.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-bernard-jenkin-david-davis-boris-johnson-liam-fox-and-weep-a7993246.htmll_



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TheElementsSong · 11/10/2017 08:04

Wow at that letter squishy! It’s just so creepy. That should be shared all over social media! Wonder if Mike Galsworthy could do with a heads-up?

HashiAsLarry · 11/10/2017 08:51

This made me smile on an otherwise bad morning

@JimMFelton
You remoaners are going to look mighty silly when the UK becomes the first country to ever win a fucking Darwin Award

Somerville · 11/10/2017 09:12

Huge apologies for the me-rail but I've hit a brick wall with my sons scholarship situation. Does anyone have an idea of where I can find advice or possibly even legal support to take it further? Please feel free to PM so as not to clog up this thread.

(To sum up the situation: DS has a large scholarship to an Indy school in southern England - I'm not sure they've ever heard of the details of the GFA. Hmm Son is now yr 10 and the school have suddenly changed scholarship criteria to say that the parent applying for it must have a British passport. I was born in NI and choose to only hold an Irish passport. School haven't responded to my wider request for the reason for the change. They have assured me that their policy of not interrupting a child's schooling because of family circumstances Hmm means that his funding will remain through to the end of y11. However he won't be able to retain the scholarship for 6th form, though they are looking into whether they can make an exception for him because his late father had a British passport and thus they don't want the bad publicity that would ensue from treating a fatherless child in this way There is very much an undercurrent of "if we can't work it out on this end then you should just get a British passport" but I don't have that in writing.

DrivenToDespair · 11/10/2017 09:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 11/10/2017 09:26

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*

top psephologists Curtice & Ford confirm net GE17 traffic for Conservatives vs Lab re Brexit: no net Leave gain, significant net Remain loss

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?
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lalalonglegs · 11/10/2017 09:30

Somerville - I wonder how helpful the Equality Commission would be in these circumstances? From your (and my) POV it looks like a clear case of discrimination. It has an advice service - but I'd be tempted to wait until I had something in writing from the school first.

RedToothBrush · 11/10/2017 09:31

Your John Redwood Gem of the Day:

John Redwood‏*@johnredwood*
Its a pity that so far the EU haven’t been prepared to talk to us about anything that really matters such as our future trading relationship

Law and policy‏*@davidallengreen*
Millions of UK and EU citizens uncertain as to residency status, and the precarious Irish border issue, "don't really matter".

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/10/mps-urge-david-davis-to-publish-brexit-impact-assessments
MPs urge David Davis to publish Brexit impact assessments
Failure to disclose advice ministers have received is preventing parliament from holding government to account, letter says

More than 120 MPs have signed a letter demanding that David Davis publish secret advice his department is gathering on the damaging effects of Brexit on jobs and living standards.

This is Labour, LD and SNP.

My question is 'why is this only 120 MPs?'

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?
Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?
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RedToothBrush · 11/10/2017 09:38

The No Deal Crew are going to be angry this morning. Hammond isn't giving them money to prepare. This also makes the talk of how 'we are preparing for No Deal' waffle that has come from May look ridiculous.

Laura Kuenssberg‏ @bbclaurak
1. Chancellor article causing consternation this morning... he is up in front of Treasury select Cttee this morning
2. His message was meant to be no cash yet, not no cash til talks finally bust up, if that happens
3. No q tho it will wind up Brexiteers who have him in their sights
4. 'Eyore is offensive to Winnie the pooh' one says - (who says politicians can behave like kids?)
5. Even tho treasury point seems straightforward- why spend taxpayers' cash before it is clear they need to
6. Last point - Treasury sources point to billions of headroom Hammond set aside last year in case Brexit gets choppy

And look here's an article in the Times about how uncertainty is bad. Written by one P Hammond:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/philip-hammond-comment-uncertainty-is-our-enemy-brrexit-m277txr2w
Philip Hammond comment: uncertainty is our enemy

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RedToothBrush · 11/10/2017 09:39

Alberto Nardelli‏*@AlbertoNardelli*
"As chancellor of the exchequer, it is my duty to be realistic..."

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RedToothBrush · 11/10/2017 09:43

Faisal Islam is picking up a couple of points about the use of language in Hammond's piece:

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*
Note the possessive pronoun here. Now applied to to "its single market" [ie the European Union's] as well as "its custom union".
... so we already know that it is now official Government policy to distinguish between THE EU Customs Union and A new temporary EU-UK CU
..logically Govt now distinguishes between THE Single Market - i.e. within EU..and A Single Market which is something different. PM did too
... so the semantics of this are that the EEA Single Market considered a different legal entity to the EU "Single Market"
To further obfuscate matters, I have heard both avid Remain and Brexit Cabinet say things like "there's no such thing as the Single Market"
I.e. - only the "internal market" EFTA, and EEA. As it happens, the current negotiating position rejects "something based on EEA membership"
Also worth ponder PM's objection to SBOEEAM - "automatic/ entire adoption of rules over which little infl & no vote" - invite for EU27 flex?

Multiple Single Markets and Customs Unions belonging to different entities.

Consistent with a BEANO agreement idea.

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HashiAsLarry · 11/10/2017 09:44

Re the redwood tweet. It's been pointed out that clearly the island of Ireland doesn't matter to these people. Says it all.

HashiAsLarry · 11/10/2017 09:51

Somerville may sound like a silly and late question but have they actually said you must hold a British passport? If so, you could challenge on the fact that no one is legally required to hold a passport, however you can prove you are entitled to hold one and that should be enough. In a normal world at least.

lonelyplanetmum · 11/10/2017 09:57

Somerville -sorry you have that to deal with.What passport does your son hold?

ElenaGreco123 · 11/10/2017 10:43

Somerville Flowers

Is Hammond making a pitch for Tory leadership at the select committee meeting? He sounds totally ... sane.

Somerville · 11/10/2017 11:04

Yes they have Hashi and it's another line I could take. I'd rather fight it on the actual issue of the against-GFA discrimination, though, IYSWIM. DS passport is Irish lonelyplanet though he is entitled to get a British one at any time, and I would support him if he wanted to.

artisancraftbeer · 11/10/2017 11:18

Somerville - it might be worth referring them to this case?

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/japanese-woman-denied-visa-to-marry-in-belfast-because-of-misunderstanding-court-hears-36213488.html

Successful judicial review yesterday of failure to take the Good Friday agreement into account. It might be worth flagging this up to the school and suggesting that they should take legal advice on the impact of the GFA and its meaning for dual passport holders.

LurkingHusband · 11/10/2017 11:49

Here's a question ...

If a job specifically states that "EU residence" is a condition of offer, then what would happen to a UK citizen who was no longer "EU resident" after Brexit ? Given the UKs domestic employment protection only kicks in after 2 years (i.e. October 2019) ?

Possibly a question better suited for the legal bods, but the political implications are interesting if it turns out that some employers are already rejecting UK only candidates.

The wording is like:

Please mention your country of origin in email, we only hire EU based employees for to avoid time zone differences.
Job location is in Cyberspace.

lonelyplanetmum · 11/10/2017 11:52

LH -it is only unfair dismissal protection that kicks in after two years.
Discrimination claims have no qualifying period.

LurkingHusband · 11/10/2017 11:57

Discrimination claims have no qualifying period.

As things stand ...

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