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Brexit

Westminstenders: Zombies don't have friends. Is Johnson the de facto PM now?

970 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/10/2017 12:32

And so the Zombie PM lives on.

Some might say that the Tory Party conference has been the thing that has really killed her, with one more blow needed to the head.

But had she already lost the battle within the party?

What is curious is how its now the hard liners who have got behind May. Why is this? They did so BEFORE the conference, not after May's speech. They are not known for suffering those they see as weak. They are there for target practice. Why have leopards seemingly changed their spots?

The truth is that just before and after her Florence speech Boris Johnson repeatedly undermined her and showed his authority was superior to May's. He may have backed down publically, but May backed down with policy, doing u-turns on her 'concessions' to the EU. Johnson was leading May and the Tory Party and not the other way around. That's what the conference was about and May's bad luck just played to their agenda.

May could be likened to the elderly Hindenburg, desperately trying to cling to power, and trying to appease the far right on the advise of von Papen who thought it could be controlled and contained. Whilst the right push it further and further, after each concession to them which they take as weakness, for their own political gain and shot at power. What would a successful far right leader in this country have to look like? A cut price Churchill pushing the values of fake patriotism? The historical parallel isn't hard to find and to fit to the political reality of today.

The irony emerging is that the EU Commission is starting to look like its more on our side than the EU27, tired of our nonsense and insults.

In this situation there can be no deal. Unless something drastic happens we are headed directly for a state of emergency.

The much forgotten and equally important dealing over the WTO is going as badly as the EU one. What do we expect with Liam Fox in charge and next to no accountability from the press or from parliament?

The hard right, obviously are making the calculated gamble that they have seized the hostage May away from the Liberals who had started to get her to see the reality. They will now do what they can to protect her, and support her. Afterall, why would you challenge her, if you felt you could control her? They have the perfect scapegoat and can protect their own political hides for the time being.

The most obvious sign of this, is Gove leaping to her defence in a way that is so ridiculously over the top.

The hard right have nothing to fear from a chaotic exit. Indeed they have much to profit from it. And they always have the means to leave if it gets too bad. They fear staying in the EU. Why IS that? Its almost as if many of them have something to hide...

Grants Shapp's intervention, is beginning to look like he was set up, with it being leaked that he was leading calls for a leadership election privately and had no intention of doing so publically until outted. The effect has been it has shored up her position, making it harder for May to even to resign either for personal or political reasons. It also casts any dissenters as 'traitors' whilst the hard right casts the image of the 'loyalists'.

Of course the hard right's gamble also rests on three other things; they know they are starting to lose the argument, they have done the maths and don't think they will have the numbers to ensure a hard right candidate makes the final two in a leadership battle and they think they can control the rest of the party because they fear Corbyn more.

Perhaps the best chance we have for a deal now does lie in a collapse of the government in the near future. This seems to be the position that the EU are taking by stepping up talks with Labour.

Just how much will Tory Liberals act in the best interests of the country and stand up to the hard right of the party. They have the numbers to get things through with Labour. But Labour want the government to collapse, so the balance of power ultimately relies on the hard right's support. Its hard to envisage Labour stepping up in the national interest any more than the Tory Right compromising.

I suspect the Hard Right ultimately fear the EU more than Corbyn. If a collapse happens it will be because the hard right will not compromise and they are prepared to push their luck on that, and this is the weapon they have over May. I suspect they figure they have little to lose by pursuing this direction. Its do or die for them anyway.

Of course what happens at home and what happens in the EU talks are also different things. The UK could well be promising more than they say at home, and this seems to be the case. But the infighting at home, jeopardises a deal even if one is reached by the EU commission as our diplomatic appearance through our antics and rhetoric at home, will convince the EU27 to reject it, and any compromise. Another gamble the Tory Right might be keen on to win over the domestic audience with their faux patriotism.

Of course, May could simply resign... She won't. She's a politician who lacks self awareness and arrogant in her own political ambition. A bit of a pep talk about how great she is and how she is doing things right and she believes it, as she is totally disconnected from the reality of things as the election proved in all its glory. She only listens to voices she agrees with...

So the Zombie PM lead by the De Facto PM will limp on. Its a game of chicken over who will lead to a collapse of government now between the liberals and the hard right.

At least for now. A leadership election is what is wanted by the press but not the party. The media want the drama more than the Tories.

If it hasn't changed within a month or so, the moment may have passed and it might be too late to salvage anything, such is the damage being done to our diplomatic relations. Start prepping in serious by Christmas, if we are still headed this way.

Please tell me, my reading of the situation is wrong...

OP posts:
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ElenaGreco123 · 10/10/2017 12:11

Britain could join trans-Atlantic trade alliance bigger than the EU if there is no deal on Brexit
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/10/britain-could-join-nafta-trade-alliance-us-canada-mexico-post/

I understand that the Telegraph is no longer dealing in journalism, but [sigh] isn’t NAFTA an alliance Trump is hellbent on tearing up?!

OlennasWimple · 10/10/2017 12:15

I hope David Davis is reading the North blog and reflecting on the points made

Meanwhile Gordon Ramsey thinks that Brexit will be "good for lazy Britain"

LurkingHusband · 10/10/2017 12:16

Britain could join trans-Atlantic trade alliance bigger than the EU if there is no deal on Brexit

Only if it's done in alphabetical order ... Apple, Bombadier ...

I see a problem there.

TheElementsSong · 10/10/2017 12:19

Pete North‏ @PeteNorth303**
Immigration that central London professionals experience is not the same as the human detritus dumped on Yorkshire. Needs fixing.

Oh dear, the mask slips on yet another Brexiteer.

artisancraftbeer · 10/10/2017 12:26

That last cuntish tweet from North is much more likely to refer to non Eu migration.

Migrants have a choice of where to go and work. People 'dumped' are put there by the HO which means they're either non- Eu migrants, British citizens whose grandparents were non- EU migrants or refugees.

Brexit will not reduce the immigration from any of these groups and may well increase it....

HashiAsLarry · 10/10/2017 12:37

lh it was a view I'd seen during the Trump campaign sadly. Not to far a leap to assume in a no deal situation where ROI is left to police the border, we will get someone running with that as a campaign Sad. If 'short term pain' is about 3 decades then I can see it being a winner too.

HashiAsLarry · 10/10/2017 12:40

Welcome to the enlightened times when someone feels perfectly able to describe another person as detritus based not on their actions but an accident of birth.

IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson · 10/10/2017 12:40

detritus Shock Angry Sad

What an appalling 'human' being Pete North‏ is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization

IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson · 10/10/2017 12:58

Maybe a good moment to remember JO Cox who served as an MP in Yorkshire and who was murdered in cold blood for her sensible views on immigration and her humanitarian values.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opinion/jo-cox-brexit-is-no-answer-to-real-concerns-on-immigration-1-7956822

Jo Cox says immigration concerns are not a legitimate reason to vote for Brexit. Published: 00:26 Friday 10 June 2016

Jo was murdered six days after this article was published in the Yorkshire Post.

I agree that Pete North‏ is showing his true colours and maybe one should think twice before linking to his shitty whiny Brexit stream of consciousness. Angry

IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson · 10/10/2017 13:00

maybe one should think twice before linking to his shitty whiny Brexit stream of consciousness

...or quoting his crappy self-pitying tweets. He is not a 'sensible' Brexiteer.

Theworldisfullofidiots · 10/10/2017 13:06

Who is?

woman11017 · 10/10/2017 13:12

Maybe a good moment to remember JO Cox who served as an MP in Yorkshire and who was murdered in cold blood for her sensible views on immigration and her humanitarian values

Thanks for posting that IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson

I think that from the moment the police woman announced that she had been confirmed dead, the terms of reference of brexit and immigration debate were changed. Debate was stifled, hence labour's contortions, and no one brave enough to lead a national Remain campaign. Speaks volumes that one of the voices we have had to reference is such a standard issue tory.

That there is no leader for a Remain camp is a direct result of Cox's murder.

ElenaGreco123 · 10/10/2017 13:43

It is a dark day when the world sets no value on you or your kin.
from October Mumsnet book of the month Days Without End by Sebastian Barry.

prettybird · 10/10/2017 14:42

I think Peter North is correct in one respect: none of us predicted the complete breakdown in parliamentary democracy based on an advisory referendum, a complete vacuum of opposition ShockSadAngryConfusedHmm

HashiAsLarry · 10/10/2017 14:54

@J_T2012
I’ve cancelled my subscription to Amazon Prime and told them I expect all the perks thereof to continue. The ball is in their court...

RedToothBrush · 10/10/2017 14:58

maybe one should think twice before linking to his shitty whiny Brexit stream of consciousness

You think we should just pretend he doesn't exist and that we should ignore his views?

The reality at this point, is that anyone who wants to avoid the disaster of a hard brexit or a chaotic brexit, doesn't have the luxury of being picky or snobby about getting support for a saner response.

We passed that point sometime ago, and whilst we should call out comments like that, we also shouldn't alienate ourselves from softer leavers either.

We should be listening to a Eurosceptic view point as it gives incite. You don't have to agree with it.

OP posts:
RhiannonOHara · 10/10/2017 14:58

I’ve cancelled my subscription to Amazon Prime and told them I expect all the perks thereof to continue. The ball is in their court...

Grin
LurkingHusband · 10/10/2017 15:16

I think Peter North is correct in one respect: none ^of us predicted the complete breakdown in parliamentary democracy based on an advisory referendum, a complete vacuum of opposition ShockSadAngryConfusedHmm

prettybird · 10/10/2017 15:30

Lurking - I don't disagree with you but I am still fizzing mad AngryAngryAngry at the abdication of responsibility by Parliamentarians of all colours (with the exception of the SNP and iirc Plaid) in challenging this chaos. They're just blindly going down the rabbit hole. Angry

LurkingHusband · 10/10/2017 15:35

You're not alone. It's all the more piss-boiling because up until last year all we were hearing was how we were taking back sovereignty Confused.

I know it's hardly politically correct, but there's discussion elsewhere, and even now, with almost every claim Leave made lying in tatters, there are people parroting that crap as if it was gospel ... it's hard not to question their intelligence.

Anyway, onto better news ... in fact I am surprised it's not made more impact (that damn Brexit, eh ?) but the UK is headed towards zero unemployment by 2018. So some good news there.

Somerville · 10/10/2017 15:42

Anyone else noticed how many active discussions on Brexit (or closely related matters) there are on MN at the moment? I'm experiencing that IRL, too. Lots of hope-for-the-best remain voters seem to finally be realising...
We now need the hope-for-the-best leave voters to notice, too.

Motheroffourdragons · 10/10/2017 15:45

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

woman11017 · 10/10/2017 15:51

Me too mother and pretty. There is no opposition. Repel bill has ensured parliament is by passed.
doesn't have the luxury of being picky or snobby about getting support for a saner response.
Listening and engaging with moderate leavers, echoes what the American resistance is doing with moderate republicans, it's got to be done. Jiggling about with party alliances is a way to break through the impasse, potentially.

Cailleach1 · 10/10/2017 15:54

You know how the Good Friday Agreement recognised that a person from the NI part of the UK could identify as Irish, British, or both. Thereby recognising two nationalities in that part of it's jurisdiction.

Well, the home office is having trouble recognising the right of people to identify as Irish (even as dual) as being compatible with coming from the UK. Ciaran Doole from NI carries an Irish passport. Allegedly, the Home Office refused his Japanese fiancée a visa to enter the UK because his Irish passport raised doubt about his status.

Judicial review proceedings were launched after 32-year-old Ms Takeoka's visa application was turned down - allegedly because her fiance holds an Irish passport.

A failure to establish that he is settled in the UK was said to be the reason for declaring her ineligible.

^Mr Doole, who was born in Northern Ireland and currently lives in south Belfast, was set to argue that the decision was in breach of the Good Friday Agreement.

During preliminary courtroom discussions Lord Chief Justice Sir Declan Morgan was told he considers himself both British and Irish.

In the visa application process Irish had been selected for his nationality, while his status within the UK was described as British citizen.^

God knows what hoops he would have had to jump through if he maintained a right to identify as Irish on all counts. As he is entitled to do without any loss of rights.

I wonder if the Home Office are just ignorant incompetent or have instructions come down from on high, to nurture a culture of being just that little bit short on helpful.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/japanese-woman-denied-visa-to-marry-in-belfast-because-of-misunderstanding-court-hears-36213488.html

I think it is very important to know what everyone is saying. Even the headbanger and liars. To me, Dominic Cummings and Matthew Elliott in front of Andrew Tyrie just showed their contempt and lack of respect for Parliament and the truth.

Oh and if there is a democratic vacuum, then that is what every Leaver knowingly and explicitly voted for. All the outcomes were thoroughly researched. Every possibility explored. A la Oakeshott.