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Brexit

Westminstenders: Beano or Bust

978 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/09/2017 21:33

The last week has seemingly been eventful but not in the way that's on the surface.

It's what's going on behind the scenes and the little comments in less high profile speeches that's more telling.

On the one hand the Norths think the May speech is a laying down "an offer" that the EU can not accept, in order to set up a no deal situation.

On the other hand Telegraph Journalist Peter Foster thinks there things going on in Brussels with the EU set to compromise in someway and help May present a deal acceptable to the British. You have to wonder whether the "presentational" stuff is about a deal to essentially be in the EU but not in the EU. A Brexit Existing in A Name Only. Beano.

It's difficult to tell, and it will come down to brinkmanship over timing. For both a deal and for the Repel Bill as the two sides in parliament try to push things to their limit for their own ends.

In this vacuum of uncertainty CBI and their "arch enemies" the TUC have put out a joint statement saying no deal is nuts and will screw every one and the way EU cits have been treated has been dreadful.

As it stands it does look like May is serious about a deal and Davis is also acting in this way. Johnson and Hannan have launched their Institute for Free Trade (at the foreign office breaking ministerial code, but hell there's no consequences these days anyway cos May dare not let Johnson off the Brexit hook) in retaliation to try and retell the Brexit story as always being about free trade rather than racist. Unfortunately leavers seem to have bust that by admitting they are considerably more racist than Remainers by their own admission.

Then there's Trump and Bombardier. Just as Brexiteers are pushing for this closer relationship with the US in trade, despite May personally lobbying Trump he fucks her over slapping 220% tariff on Bombardier and putting the future of 4000 jobs at risk. This was inevitable as Trump fucks everyone for his own gain. The US won't ride to the aid of the British capitalists. They'll just eat them alive.

This week sees an important vote by the European Parliament on Brexit red lines. One of the votes states that the UK has to either stay in the customs union and internal market or NI has to have a special arrangement and stay in the customs union and the internal market in order to protect the EUs border integrity. Neither is compatible with what the Cons and the DUP have said they want.

It's also the Tory Party conference.May's big speech, in which she must throw red meat to the swivel eyed loons on right, is on Weds. There are of course, no debates at ConParty because, well, they can't behave like good little children without supervision. Instead the conference is to, erm... yeah we'll find out next week.

OP posts:
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DrivenToDespair · 05/10/2017 15:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson · 05/10/2017 16:02

"Brexit: UK's WTO status 'could be blocked over territorial disputes'
Countries with which the UK has territorial disputes – such as Argentina and Spain – could use the opportunity to force compromise on other issues, the Institute of Export has warned"

Og Goood Brexit really is the gift that keeps on giving.

IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson · 05/10/2017 16:08

I am so very saddened by these horrible developments and fear for Europe's peace in case of a hard Brexit. My children and British German as am I and I detest having to choose one over the other. Should we live in Germany? the UK? What if it all goes pear shaped here or there? I hate the atmosphere of conflict. Sad

BoboEK · 05/10/2017 16:28

So "Project Fear" was not a made up situation by "Remoaners" after all.............

BigChocFrenzy · 05/10/2017 16:48

I've been posting since the damn ref result that Argentina and the usual suspects could block our WTO entry for at least some time.

I admit that I'm totally blindsided by the US, Canada, NZ leading them !
ffs, Canada is the only country so far that has said they'll do a copy & paste of their deal with the EU

Looks like we always underestimate the problems and over-estimate help from non-EU "friends",
(even though Leave posters claim we're just Remoaners, being paranoid / talking the country down)

pointythings · 05/10/2017 16:51

I remember the school census question on nationality - our school made it very, very clear that that data was not compulsory. So I did not provide it. There were a lot of threads of the 'rules is rules, what have you got to hide' type on here and I doubt that any of those posters have changed their mind - but in the light of what the Home Office have been up to with their deportation letters, I feel quite vindicated in my refusal.

TheElementsSong · 05/10/2017 17:28

So "Project Fear" was not a made up situation by "Remoaners" after all.............

I think you'll find that the position now is "We always knew it wouldn't be easy, we foresaw and fully understood every single one of these occurrences / short term pain for long term gain / what price Freedom and Control" Hmm and "Look over there! A squirrel!" Grin

RedToothBrush · 05/10/2017 17:50

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/five-former-cabinet-ministers-join-plot-to-force-theresa-may-to-quit-a3651546.html
Five former Cabinet ministers join plot to force Theresa May to quit
EXCLUSIVE: 30-strong Tory group plans to oust PM before Christmas

18 names to go...

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prettybird · 05/10/2017 17:53

There was indeed a government minister on the news today (can't remember if it was Sky or BBC) who was saying, "We always knew it was going to be difficult and highly complex and would take a long time and a lot of effort" Hmm

I might have been shouting at the TV that any time anyone suggested that would be the case, it was decried as "Project Fear" Wink

RedToothBrush · 05/10/2017 17:57

My personal Project Fear over here, thought it would be difficult. Then the vote happened and I realised it would be even more difficult than that.

These threads discussed the WTO talks being as important as the EU ones at least a year ago. Yet the media has completely neglected them. This isn't 'project fear' being proved right. These details largely emerged shortly AFTER the referendum and therefore aren't technically part of Project Fear.

It also highlights the degree to which the media dropping the ball. They should have realised all this prior to the referendum - the fact, even I didn't know a lot of these details BEFORE the referendum is alarming. It should have been out there, but then again, Brexiteers including Daniel Hannan and Boris Johnson made a point during the referendum that we would NOT be leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union.

That's really where this issue is. In how the Brexiteers, promised cake and then moved the goal posts after the referendum so the project fear of the referendum is actually a much friendlier version than the reality of what is now happening.

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Toomanypackingboxes · 05/10/2017 18:00

I too remember the school census form which our school stated was voluntary, I am usually a rather compulsive rule follower but I really didn't want to encourage that kind of thing so I returned the form signed and blank and I noted the school didn't approach me to complete it which it usually would. We lived in a very mono cultural area but it wasn't really the point.

BiglyBadgers · 05/10/2017 18:02

Just to break up the really depressing WTO stuff let's all laugh at the Tories attempts at social media

The Conservatives' Social Media Game Is Absolutely Terrible
www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-conservatives-social-media-game-is-absolutely-terrible?utm_term=.soMBBQYAJD#.geMJJym8Zd

BigChocFrenzy · 05/10/2017 18:03

Jobs moving out of the UK

Banking insiders here report that Deutsche Bank is now in the process of moving 4,00 of their 10,000 employees in the UK over to Frankfurt
Also moving much of their balance sheet (umpteen billions)

This is well ahead of the schedule reported originally in https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-01/deutsche-bank-brexit-base-case-said-to-see-4-000-jobs-move-to-eu

Goldman-Sachs also preparing to move employees - they're enquiring about renting in Frankfurt
Commercial rents going up here, upper level residential property prices and rents too - boom time for some.

Astra-Zeneca prepping for Hard Brexit
https://www.thelocal.se/20170928/astrazeneca-has-started-preparing-for-hard-brexit-including-operations-move-from-uk

HashiAsLarry · 05/10/2017 18:19

Ah yes, short term pain for long term gain.
Short term now means at least 3 decades.

LewisThere · 05/10/2017 18:38

When you are reading all the forecast and risks if there is no trade deal on the horizon by Christmas is scary.
And then there are the forecast about the government budget, which apparently, has seen billions disappear due to bad economic performance,
I mean do people realise that the last financial crisis was a walk in the park compare to that??

BigChocFrenzy · 05/10/2017 18:38

And on so many other threads, like the Archduke Ferdinand one, Brexiters keep claiming the EU is going to explode and is a threat to oeace Confused

I expect they are going to continue such fantasy displacement activity to avoid discussion of the disaster facing the UK.
Even if disaster hits the UK, the only way they'll be able to cope is to claim still worse horrors will happen to the EU at some time in the future
The alternative - to fantasising that Brexit is to avoid worse happenings - is to admit they voted to harm the economy and their own lives because they were conned.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/10/2017 18:46

Trump and Brexit happened because average wages in the US and the UK have still not caught up in real terms to what they were before the 2008 crash.

This is because both countries are more neoliberal and hence more unequal societies than most other Western countries, particularly in the EU

Wages in other EU countries have been affected by globalisation and certainly lost jobs from automation,
but they have more of a social contract, better public services and support, to help mitigate the effects.

Westminstenders: Beano or Bust
TheElementsSong · 05/10/2017 18:48

Even if disaster hits the UK, the only way they'll be able to cope is to claim still worse horrors will happen to the EU

That's the "Look over there! A squirrel!" approach Grin

woman11017 · 05/10/2017 18:49

Tories attempts at social media
Oh I miss Charlie Brooker! Thanks bigly
We all know whose got their sticky fingers in Catalonia, BCF

thecatfromjapan · 05/10/2017 19:04

I completely agree with that analysis of the delusional sticking-with-Brexit mentality. I can't understand why people aren't concerned that the financial sector looks like taking its balance sheets elsewhere. Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 05/10/2017 19:22

Is Vlad the Impaler stirring up the Catalans, woman ?

mathanxiety · 05/10/2017 19:36

It's very easy to give a dog a bad name and hang him..

woman11017 · 05/10/2017 19:46

Channel 4 news doing remainers debate, Hugo Dixon is doing us no favours. Sad More posh supercilious white men we do not need. 5 minutes in and no women speakers. They've got people talking about a 'better brexit'. It's bollox. Poor show channel 4.

BCFmaybe?
elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/25/inenglish/1506323273_063367.html

thecatfromjapan · 05/10/2017 19:49

Oh, I don't think it's so bad. I suspect there are quite a few Momentumites in the audience, trying to argue through the labyrynthine, mind-melting Corbynist position but the majority of the audience is pretty great.

Love Ms Lib Dem.

Nobody's mentioning the news from the City.

thecatfromjapan · 05/10/2017 19:51

You know, what is becoming clearer and clearer is how a. Brexit is the most significant political issue facing the country b. the First Past the Post system absolutely destroys our ability to deal with it effectively.

It's like watching the UK's system of democracy strangling itself. Sad