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Brexit

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2017 10:55

Brexit is being fought in the UK media and parliament on the premise that the EU is being difficult and obstructive.

The fallacy can not be understated.

What the UK fails to understand is the right of the EU to put their own interests before the UKs. It doesn't under that our demands cannot be met even if the EU wanted to for practical and legal reasons - not political ones because our understanding of the situation and law is so poor.

The net result is the slippage of the next phase of Brexit talks being pushed to Christmas by the EU due to lack of progress by the UK. Barnier is open to more regular and intense talks but this is bad news for the UK with the a50 clock ticking.

The main stumbling block is NI a with Barnier warning not to use the border as a way to test EU resolve. Brexit always about the NI border. The UK have never provided a solution to the EU that does not produce a hard border. The idea being pushed by the UK will create one despite claiming it won't. The reality is the only viable solutions are either staying in the single market and customs union or NI being granted special status and being different to the rest of the country. The former is opposed by the government, the later opposed by the DUP.

The DUP are getting a taste of their own medicine. They have been warned that Assembly Members might have pay frozen and if they don't reform Stormont they won't get their Billion Pound Booty. Plus Ian Paisley Jr just found a new scandal for the party.

May is trying to channel Venezuela by getting rid of democracy when it suits. The Great Repel Bill (aka as the Withdrawal Bill) faces it's challenge. The much feared Henry VIII in clause 9 are not only facing criticism from Remainers but also from the secretive crackpots of Tory Bastard Club (aka ERG). The TBC want hard cliff edge Brexit. May seems to support given her goodwill burning interference at the Home Office which seeks to discriminate against all foreigners and make them sign a register. The visa system and how it will attract much needed staff for the NHS makes the mind boggle.

The Repel Bill also could end the possibility of transition due to clause 6 which requires us to leave the ECJ. Given the May's ambition to make EU citizens display their stars in job applications this is totally unable to the EU. If it passes the chances of transition drop dramatically. Bye bye Smooth and Orderly.

Then there is the May-Bot paradox: the one were she gives a friendly speech to the EU and a nasty on to the Swivel Eyed Loon gathering. As if neither will be reported to the other audience.

On top of this May is attempting the Parliament Rigging Act as she has a 'majority Government'. Yep I know, this is the general election version of 'will of the people'. The Rigging Act seeks to stack parliamentary committees with Tory majorities so they can stop any bill they don't like getting anywhere need the main chamber this limiting the power of opposition to irrelevant. Sadly I think this one will get through due to maths of the HoC atm.

We shouldn't forget the role of the HoL though and the lack of a majority government (why do you think May is saying majority government? It's down to the Sewell convention and trying to make the case it applies when the argument is it doesn't for a minority government).

The other development is the rumours that Boris is for the boot. And Rees-Mogg might get a promotion.

OP posts:
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Badders08 · 14/09/2017 20:46

Great news re nick cleggs son.

HashiAsLarry · 14/09/2017 20:54

Poor little Cleggy, and clegg family. Great he's on the mend.

Peregrina · 14/09/2017 21:08

In fact, as soon as the world realises that the UK is not checking food imports, countries will be lining up to send their oldest, dodgiest crap that they can't palm off on less desparate / disorganised customersIt really is dangerous if the UK can't set up the infrastructure to check all the 1000s of lorries per day Contaminated food & drink, counterfeit goods, drugs, weapons .....

And once more it will be the poor who have no choice but to bear the brunt of this. Meanwhile May, Gove, Johnson, Fox, Davis, Redwood etc. etc. etc. will be wealthy enough to buy premium food, and genuine goods. Which of course will delight them, because they will think that flaunting their wealth makes them better people. Well - May might just once again remember she's a vicar's daughter and a conscience might struggle to break out from the depths of her being.

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 21:50

May might just once again remember she's a vicar's daughter

perhaps he wasn't a very good vicar Hmm

Peregrina · 14/09/2017 21:59

perhaps he wasn't a very good vicar

He was High Church Anglican, so I suspect that his experience was quite narrow. I doubt whether he ever had a Living in the middle of a depressed City.

TM is six years younger than me, but her DF was the same age as mine, so I suspect growing up as an only child in a middle aged household meant that she didn't get the corners knocked off her in the way that someone growing up with brothers and sisters and younger parents would have done.

OlennasWimple · 14/09/2017 22:01

As someone with very recent experience of food shopping in a place with very lax food regulations, I can confirm that it stinks and has no place in 21st century Britain. Whilst I'd love to see more local markets selling "ugly" produce that have been grown on the British Isles (which I think is what Brexiteers are fondly imagining will happen), I don't want to sacrifice the absolute requirement to label fresh produce with a Use By date and regulations with real teeth for those who sell goods in breach of basic safety and hygiene rules.

Telegraph story about Master Clegg - only 15 Sad

OlennasWimple · 14/09/2017 22:01

Clicky link

BlueEyeshadow · 14/09/2017 22:11

He was High Church Anglican, so I suspect that his experience was quite narrow. I doubt whether he ever had a Living in the middle of a depressed City.

Ahem. I know of quite a few High Anglican churches in pretty grotty bits of London... [/tangent]

Peregrina · 14/09/2017 22:29

Hmm, well did he ever work in those grotty bits of London? I live in Oxfordshire, as some of you will know by now. Even in the villages there are some pockets of poverty, but there are also villages which ooze money. I suspect his Livings were more the latter. I wonder about his sermons, whether they dealt with the difficulties of rich men getting to heaven?

We were walking through one of the oozing money villages the other day, and came across a caravan park. DH expressed surprise that this village could run to a Park Home site.

Peregrina · 14/09/2017 23:34

Meanwhile, another fine upstanding Tory Rees-Mogg is being challenged for being unchristian, with his comments on Food banks.

mathanxiety · 15/09/2017 00:37

post-Brexit Britain will simply outlaw, or refuse to recognise dual citizenship with EU countries.

If this happens, what about the GFA acknowledgement of Irish citizenship in NI?

mathanxiety · 15/09/2017 02:54

www.cobdencentre.org/about/our-advisory-board/
Here are the personnel of 'The Cobden Centre'..

A few institutions and strands of thought seem to crop up frequently in these fronts or 'institutes'.

George Mason University in DC.
Universidad Rey Juan Carlos in Madrid
Austrian economics.
Matthew Elliott.

I said this before and here it is again, it all reminds me very much of John Buchan's book 'The 39 Steps'. Wheels within wheels, string pullers, etc.

EternalOptimistToo · 15/09/2017 06:38

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-latest-news-uk-eu-citizens-valued-stay-leave-europeans-britain-immigration-rules-brexodus-a7947181.html

Brexit: UK Government launches plea for 'valued' EU citizens to stay in Britain
Hahahaha
Yep I'm sure that will be enough to convince people to stay...
Because we all know eu citizens are highly valued here. That's what we've all being hearing for the last 2 years. NOT.

EternalOptimistToo · 15/09/2017 06:52

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/14/home-secretary-ignores-court-order-sends-asylum-seeker-kabul-samim-bigzad

And meanwhile the government is actually going against the law (decision from the UK justice) and human rights and sends a man back to Kabul.
That is supposed to reassure all if us that the U.K. Governemnet is law abiding and will be decent towards any EU citizens once the UK has left the EU...

I'm Shock Shock Shock that the fact the government is PURPOSELY not abiding to a court verdict isn't raised as an issue.
The contempt is along the same line that what we have seen before (see all the comments about judges being against the will of people etc).
How can a country accept that wo a peep??

HesterThrale · 15/09/2017 07:07

Peregrina that article makes me sad. These Govt pleas are late, selfish and insincere. Not only did the Govt NOT guarantee EU citizens rights to stay immediately after the Ref, but also May did NOT stand up in Parliament and make impassioned speeches about how discrimination, bullying and hate speech against these people was wrong, illegal and to be abhorred. (Something I could imagine Merkel doing.)

whatwouldrondo · 15/09/2017 07:54

Those that can afford it in China do indeed spend a lot of money and time on the safety of their food, buying imported brands, shopping at western supermarkets, using special washes on their vegetables. It isn't just the baby food scandal, there has been a steady stream of food scandals including the sale of recycled cooking oil "gutter oil", the use of poisonous illegal pesticides to treat cured hams, use of illegal red dye in foodstuffs including chilli sauce and even locally produced Heinz baked beans, fish with high levels of lead and other pollutants, counterfeit alcoholic drinks brands using industrial alcohol, common use of Sodium Formaldehyde Sulfoxylate (CH3NaO3S) to bleach food, the list goes on......

IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson · 15/09/2017 08:05

"Because we all know eu citizens are highly valued here. That's what we've all being hearing for the last 2 years. NOT."

Yes. that was a slightly lukewarm declaration of love. So insincere.

Peregrina · 15/09/2017 08:27

Quite Hester. I am pleased that people in the UK are charitable, but we should never have come to that. Rees-Mogg and Theresa May make so much about their Christianity but where is their support for the poor and sick?

WifeofDarth · 15/09/2017 08:33

Quite Peregrina. And as for someone who professes disapproval for the MAP and abortion and yet votes for removal if welfare support for children who hapoen to be born third in their family....Would love to see him questioned on reconciling those positions

IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson · 15/09/2017 08:35

I ain't feeling the love in any case.

hold 2 sought after postgraduate degrees from RG Universities and an ace BA from a bog standard ex-polytechnic, my annual salary (north of London) has been well above the national average for over a decade.

During my first ten years here I never used the NHS as I was still insured in my home country and now my family and I are privately insured through my employer. I am trained in a niche and specialist field and feel increasingly reluctant to remain here. What had attracted me in the first place was the entrepreneurial and open spirit of London in the 90s and early 2000s. Now all i see is small minded nationalism without any substance. It's just hot air talk but pretty ugly and off putting nevertheless.

I brought with me an excellent school education from abroad a when moving to the UK as a 19 year old. I just don't understand why the UK , if they want to get rid of us EU citizens, don't heavily invest in their own education so they can home grow talent rather than relying on people from abroad.

I am convinced that if somebody with the same skills and education that I have to offer also happens to be British and much better spoken than me, I have no doubt that they would have been recruited rather than me. But for years I have been one of the few adequately skilled people in my (admittedly niche) industry and more or less walk into my jobs.

Sorry that's not intended to sound arrogant but this is how it is. I am not special I just had a good very school education (knowledge I brought to the UK with no cost to the UK tax payer) and was the able to study and shape my career. I seem to remember tat my undergraduate was financed by some EU scheme. Without the EU I would not be contributing in the UK in the professional field that I am in. I would not have been able to do my undergraduate degree if I'd had to pay £9000 per year in fees, not a chance as my parents are not wealthy.

Next year, my dh and dc will relocate to my home country. And take with us a genuine desire to make a positive difference wherever we are, a willingness work hard and be nice citizens. But I want my dc to grow up in an open minded society and with a functioning democracy at the very least.

It's really sad as this has been my home for more than two decades. But as we know nothing stays the same in life so one either goes with the flow or gets left behind. I am really concerned about the UK crashing out of the EEA.

Perhaps May will surprise us all, and state in her speech next week, that she wants to stay in the EEA, But the mere fact that we don't know and everything is cloak and daggers and that the democratic process is increasingly undermined, is enough to put me off living here.

IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson · 15/09/2017 08:52

*please ignore the rogue odd words and terrible grammar Blush I haven't had my Brew yet and typing on a rattling train. There was a point i was trying to make in my post but fear it's just a rant, apologies!!

Let me make it good by saying how very much I appreciate these threads and especially this latest one although reading this is sometimes not greta for my blood pressure or mood. It all seems to be so senseless yet I believe in the theory of "string pullers" and that behind all this (based on the dodgy funding of project leave and the more than dodgy Brexit think tank mentions above) are powerful individuals and a small group who stand to gain from Brexit whilst the majority of British people will loose so much.

HesterThrale · 15/09/2017 09:00

Idontlooklike all I can say is how sorry I am that you and others are going, and how the UK will be the worse for it. I don't blame you.
My heart sinks yet further.

prettybird · 15/09/2017 09:03

IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson - your point was admirably put across.

You've reminded me that a Dutch friend has gone back to the Netherlands with his family and is commuting back to Glasgow Uni where he is involved with a research project.

The trickle will become an exodus Sad

Badders08 · 15/09/2017 09:07
Sad
EternalOptimistToo · 15/09/2017 09:11

Idontllooklike yup r point was very well put across.
And I agree with you all the way. That certainly reflects my own experience too.