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Brexit

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2017 10:55

Brexit is being fought in the UK media and parliament on the premise that the EU is being difficult and obstructive.

The fallacy can not be understated.

What the UK fails to understand is the right of the EU to put their own interests before the UKs. It doesn't under that our demands cannot be met even if the EU wanted to for practical and legal reasons - not political ones because our understanding of the situation and law is so poor.

The net result is the slippage of the next phase of Brexit talks being pushed to Christmas by the EU due to lack of progress by the UK. Barnier is open to more regular and intense talks but this is bad news for the UK with the a50 clock ticking.

The main stumbling block is NI a with Barnier warning not to use the border as a way to test EU resolve. Brexit always about the NI border. The UK have never provided a solution to the EU that does not produce a hard border. The idea being pushed by the UK will create one despite claiming it won't. The reality is the only viable solutions are either staying in the single market and customs union or NI being granted special status and being different to the rest of the country. The former is opposed by the government, the later opposed by the DUP.

The DUP are getting a taste of their own medicine. They have been warned that Assembly Members might have pay frozen and if they don't reform Stormont they won't get their Billion Pound Booty. Plus Ian Paisley Jr just found a new scandal for the party.

May is trying to channel Venezuela by getting rid of democracy when it suits. The Great Repel Bill (aka as the Withdrawal Bill) faces it's challenge. The much feared Henry VIII in clause 9 are not only facing criticism from Remainers but also from the secretive crackpots of Tory Bastard Club (aka ERG). The TBC want hard cliff edge Brexit. May seems to support given her goodwill burning interference at the Home Office which seeks to discriminate against all foreigners and make them sign a register. The visa system and how it will attract much needed staff for the NHS makes the mind boggle.

The Repel Bill also could end the possibility of transition due to clause 6 which requires us to leave the ECJ. Given the May's ambition to make EU citizens display their stars in job applications this is totally unable to the EU. If it passes the chances of transition drop dramatically. Bye bye Smooth and Orderly.

Then there is the May-Bot paradox: the one were she gives a friendly speech to the EU and a nasty on to the Swivel Eyed Loon gathering. As if neither will be reported to the other audience.

On top of this May is attempting the Parliament Rigging Act as she has a 'majority Government'. Yep I know, this is the general election version of 'will of the people'. The Rigging Act seeks to stack parliamentary committees with Tory majorities so they can stop any bill they don't like getting anywhere need the main chamber this limiting the power of opposition to irrelevant. Sadly I think this one will get through due to maths of the HoC atm.

We shouldn't forget the role of the HoL though and the lack of a majority government (why do you think May is saying majority government? It's down to the Sewell convention and trying to make the case it applies when the argument is it doesn't for a minority government).

The other development is the rumours that Boris is for the boot. And Rees-Mogg might get a promotion.

OP posts:
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LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 16:22

One to share ...

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200004

Will of the people, etc etc ...

Peregrina · 14/09/2017 16:23

+Rotting food products waiting for certification or approval for exports

Reading this, I wondered could just wave our food imports through customs? Or is that breaking a tariff rule?

woman11017 · 14/09/2017 16:24

@cornishskeptic 2h2 hours ago

Latest accounts here over £2 million in "donations" apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends19/0001140719_AC_20151231_E_C.pdf

Legatum getting lots of donations.

Badders08 · 14/09/2017 16:25

No shit Sherlock
😮😡😔🤔

RedToothBrush · 14/09/2017 16:30

I feel the vultures are circling for the NHS.

Don't forget Gove who thinks that we need to burn everything down to start anew.

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DividedKingdom · 14/09/2017 16:30

All that glitters is not Brexit Glitterball

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 16:31

I've also found that he wrote another earlier dissertation about how trade and civil liberty support and assist each other in 1756.

Annoyingly I can't place exactly where, but I recently read an assertion that while France and Britain were evenly matched in industrial terms. one of the reasons Britain had an industrial revolution rather than France was because British workers were paid more, and so were able to buy the goods the factories could make.

Which vaguely echoes a brilliant polemic John Prescott gave years ago (i.e. pre 1997) where he warned that the Tories wanted an economy "Where we all went around selling each other insurance" ....

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 16:35

Reading this, I wondered could just wave our food imports through customs? Or is that breaking a tariff rule?

(Robert Robertson voice) Ah, if only it were that simple ...

I've read a couple of times that's not allowed under WTO rules. Presumably to stop countries using it to leverage neighbours.

Has anyone mentioned what the ability of the UK - an island famed worldwide for making fuck all - to deal with any WTO sanctions, should it find itself on the receiving end ?

How quickly will Trumps America rush to bust sanctions for the UK ?

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2017 16:57

Cailleach In my post I didn't mention the cost of recreating all the EU agancies

  • without the savings of scale from 27 countries, so will cost more now than our part costs did.

Or the delay until we can recreate agencies and renegotiate international agreements
what we would notice immediately is missing:

EURATOM: nuclear fuel, nuclear medicine !
Open skies agreement: ALL international flights to / from the Uk !
Not just to / from the EU - so that's all vacations & business flights buggered
(just civil aviation. Military flights shouldn't be affected)

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 16:59

On a related topic, my labour MP has replied to me.

Not a squeak about my first two emails about Brexit (June and July), but a reply to my 3rd in August about bins.

I suspect the fact that a lot of people have just had an email reminding them of her existence* prompted a flurry of activity at MP towers.

(*theyworkforyou emailed me about her maiden speech).

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2017 17:10

If the Uk waves through E27 food imports, without any FTA, MRA etc
then under WTO rules, we would have to wave through food imports from all the 190 odd countries in the world

It's not just chlorinated chicken to worry about, but very serious food safety issues from developing countries
Remember all the babies poisoned in China from contaminated formula ?

This is why the EU will have to treat the UK as a "third country" after a no deal Brexit.
They would not be "punishing" the UK - as some Leavers keep claiming
Any WTO country would demand that its goods be treated the same as UK goods

So if the EU waved through UK goods without customs, inspections or tariffs, it would mean free trade with the world i.e. the end of the EU as a trade bloc

LurkingHusband · 14/09/2017 17:13

Remember all the babies poisoned in China from contaminated formula ?

As long as it's only poor peoples babies, will Leavers have a problem with that ? After all, we've now been told that "some pain is to be expected" ?

TheElementsSong · 14/09/2017 17:17

Remember all the babies poisoned in China from contaminated formula

ISTR that we were promised a yuge trade deal with the USA, and loads of Leavers were keen to assure us that chlorinated chicken is not only harmless, but probably actively good for us and tasting superiorly of sovereignty and control. So assuming we were magically able to get a trade deal with China, we ought to be just as eager for the delights of contaminated baby formula.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2017 17:20

Some obvious reasons Baker, ERG, Legatum et al want to tear down the EU:

  • Removing a more effective rival - the Single Market is enabling the EU to prosper and grow their economies The contrast makes it too obvious if the UK goes down the toilet, that the Tories / Brexit have screwed up

Also, most international business would choose the EU and the SM over the UK, even moving some existing UK jobs

  • EU plans, outlined in Junker's recent speech,
    of a significant change in tax strategy, designed to hit grossly undertaxed global corporations
    (taxing them on turnover, not on easily manipulated profit figures),

  • "Disaster capitalism" - i.e. there are opportunities for huge profits during chaos & disaster.
    Some unscrupulous uberwealthy have moved from merely taking advantage of chaos to deliberately plotting to create it

EternalOptimistToo · 14/09/2017 17:25

Who is giving money to Legatum, a 'charity' that very few people know after all???

RedToothBrush · 14/09/2017 17:26

May's drive on mental health is going to be the return of the lunatic asylum isn't it?

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artisancraftbeer · 14/09/2017 17:29

The donors to legation are probably those who think they'll make even more money if the worst happens - disaster capitalists.

Multi millionaires who think it could make them multi billionaires (because it worked at the end of the Soviet Union)...

woman11017 · 14/09/2017 17:43

@davidallengreen

Gosh.

From what can be seen and made out, reads like first paragraph of A-level essay on the significance of the Renaissance.David Allen Green added,

Any A-level student claiming that Florence "taught us what it is to be European" is heading for re-sits.

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?
thecatfromjapan · 14/09/2017 17:47

I would love to know who's donating to Legatum.

Peregrina · 14/09/2017 18:35

So if the EU waved through UK goods without customs, inspections or tariffs, it would mean free trade with the world i.e. the end of the EU as a trade bloc.

I thought I'd made a posting on this, but it hasn't appeared. I was thinking in terms of food coming in which the UK could say don't need customs checks (which would be handy because they aren't ready to implement anything yet). Would stuff get stopped in France etc. before getting on the boats? I wasn't thinking in terms of our exports - yep, they will sit on the quayside in France and rot and it will be tough.

Motheroffourdragons · 14/09/2017 18:55

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

OlennasWimple · 14/09/2017 20:29

Sorry if I missed it referenced earlier in the thread, but I just caught up with the fact that Nick Clegg's son has just been given the all clear from Hodgkin's Lymphoma.

I wondered why he disappeared so completely after the election, and now it makes sense. Sad

Glad Master Clegg is on the mend

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2017 20:32

peregrina As I posted, if the UK waves through food imports from the EU,
then WTO rules mean it must also must also wave through food imports from every other WTO country,
about 190 of them

.... some with much lower safety standards

Hence my reference to poisoned babies in China - contamination could happen with other foods too

In fact, as soon as the world realises that the UK is not checking food imports,
countries will be lining up to send their oldest, dodgiest crap that they can't palm off on less desparate / disorganised customers

It really is dangerous if the UK can't set up the infrastructure to check all the 1000s of lorries per day
Contaminated food & drink, counterfeit goods, drugs, weapons .....

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2017 20:34

Oh, I hadn't heard about Clegg's son before
Poor lad and what a nightmare for the family
Yes, very glad to hear he's recovering well

TheElementsSong · 14/09/2017 20:43

I didn't know that about Nick Clegg's son - glad to hear that he is recovering.

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