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Brexit

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2017 10:55

Brexit is being fought in the UK media and parliament on the premise that the EU is being difficult and obstructive.

The fallacy can not be understated.

What the UK fails to understand is the right of the EU to put their own interests before the UKs. It doesn't under that our demands cannot be met even if the EU wanted to for practical and legal reasons - not political ones because our understanding of the situation and law is so poor.

The net result is the slippage of the next phase of Brexit talks being pushed to Christmas by the EU due to lack of progress by the UK. Barnier is open to more regular and intense talks but this is bad news for the UK with the a50 clock ticking.

The main stumbling block is NI a with Barnier warning not to use the border as a way to test EU resolve. Brexit always about the NI border. The UK have never provided a solution to the EU that does not produce a hard border. The idea being pushed by the UK will create one despite claiming it won't. The reality is the only viable solutions are either staying in the single market and customs union or NI being granted special status and being different to the rest of the country. The former is opposed by the government, the later opposed by the DUP.

The DUP are getting a taste of their own medicine. They have been warned that Assembly Members might have pay frozen and if they don't reform Stormont they won't get their Billion Pound Booty. Plus Ian Paisley Jr just found a new scandal for the party.

May is trying to channel Venezuela by getting rid of democracy when it suits. The Great Repel Bill (aka as the Withdrawal Bill) faces it's challenge. The much feared Henry VIII in clause 9 are not only facing criticism from Remainers but also from the secretive crackpots of Tory Bastard Club (aka ERG). The TBC want hard cliff edge Brexit. May seems to support given her goodwill burning interference at the Home Office which seeks to discriminate against all foreigners and make them sign a register. The visa system and how it will attract much needed staff for the NHS makes the mind boggle.

The Repel Bill also could end the possibility of transition due to clause 6 which requires us to leave the ECJ. Given the May's ambition to make EU citizens display their stars in job applications this is totally unable to the EU. If it passes the chances of transition drop dramatically. Bye bye Smooth and Orderly.

Then there is the May-Bot paradox: the one were she gives a friendly speech to the EU and a nasty on to the Swivel Eyed Loon gathering. As if neither will be reported to the other audience.

On top of this May is attempting the Parliament Rigging Act as she has a 'majority Government'. Yep I know, this is the general election version of 'will of the people'. The Rigging Act seeks to stack parliamentary committees with Tory majorities so they can stop any bill they don't like getting anywhere need the main chamber this limiting the power of opposition to irrelevant. Sadly I think this one will get through due to maths of the HoC atm.

We shouldn't forget the role of the HoL though and the lack of a majority government (why do you think May is saying majority government? It's down to the Sewell convention and trying to make the case it applies when the argument is it doesn't for a minority government).

The other development is the rumours that Boris is for the boot. And Rees-Mogg might get a promotion.

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woman11017 · 12/09/2017 16:05

Miners strike

Everything trump does, she does:
DACA/ Home office deportations
Executive power seizure;
attacks on judiciary;
Militarised police to enforce martial law/ ditto here

That's what the miners were up against, it was a militarised police force.
The Metrapolitan Police when they attacked the poll tax demonstration were pretty tooled up.

woman11017 · 12/09/2017 16:21

The 3 Million
BREAKING ex-DExEU's chief of staff James Chapman to speak at the3million's lobby tomorrow at 1pm about settled status.
Register at mass-lobby-eu-uk-citizens.eventbrite.co.uk

LurkingHusband · 12/09/2017 16:22

That's what the miners were up against, it was a militarised national
police force.

woman11017 · 12/09/2017 16:25

Oh yes, LH miners's strike had corrupt tories in cahoots with extreme right wing US business interests to shut down British Trade Unionism.

A bit like.........

DrivenToDespair · 12/09/2017 16:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LurkingHusband · 12/09/2017 16:40

One of my friends DF (sadly passed many years ago) was a real bigwig in the NCB (had a genuine Davy lamp miners still used in emergencies in their porch).

One of his jobs was to overfly the power stations, and submit a report on coal stocks ... this was in 1983

Don't try and tell me the miners strike wasn't stage managed. It was just the Tories luck they were up against an idiot like Scargill.

Badders08 · 12/09/2017 16:42

Was telling ds1 about the battle of orgreave last week
I'm not sure he believed me til I found some old tv footage

LurkingHusband · 12/09/2017 16:45

Did you mention the un-numbered policemen ?

I've heard 3 completely different excuses (from policemen) over the years over that. It amused me that while they are very good at comparing notes to stitch up suspects, they were much less zealous over procedural excuses.

Badders08 · 12/09/2017 16:46

I did
Ds1 was horrified

Badders08 · 12/09/2017 16:47

....i remember my late dad almost in tears watching that footage

LurkingHusband · 12/09/2017 16:51

fast forward to 2017, and successive governments lack of energy policy means that power cuts are way more likely with much less disruption.

Heck, we might get them anyway, without any industrial action.

DrivenToDespair · 12/09/2017 16:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badders08 · 12/09/2017 17:06

I keep telling dh we should get an allotment ....

LurkingHusband · 12/09/2017 17:08

I keep telling dh we should get an allotment

Aye ... we'll need somewhere to bury the bodies.

LurkingHusband · 12/09/2017 17:09

Horticultural businesses forced to raise wages to retain Polish labour in wake of vote

PMSL ...

Badders08 · 12/09/2017 17:21

I'm hoping to take ds to see "death of stalin"

Violetparis · 12/09/2017 17:39

Corbyn whips the Labour MPs and votes the way you would like (and me too) but some of you imagine he is hoping for a power grab himself, don't see this at all.

lalalonglegs · 12/09/2017 17:43

Badders - if you're up to it, the (amazing) artist Jeremy Deller worked with a group of ex-miners and military re-enactors to recreate the . It's a brilliant film but quite hard to watch. I'm old enough to remember it happening Sad.

Badders08 · 12/09/2017 18:11

I'm not sure I have the heart for it atm....😔
I will tell ds1 about it though thsnks

woman11017 · 12/09/2017 18:41

^Theresa May faces multiple rebellions over EU withdrawal bill
Conservative MPs back series of changes aimed at softening Brexit plan, raising possibility of defeats for PM^

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/12/theresa-may-multiple-rebellions-eu-withdrawal-bill-conservative-mps

Badders08 · 12/09/2017 18:42

Oh
Finding a fucking backbone are they?

LurkingHusband · 12/09/2017 18:53

Conservative MPs back series of changes aimed at softening Brexit plan, raising possibility of defeats for PM

It's possibly a question of nuance ? (He says, hopefully).

An MPs vote is public record - clear for all the world to see (and beat them over the head with).

However an MPs conduct - behind closed doors - is much less transparent.

So is it possible that there are more than a handful of MPs who have voted "Brexit" for public consumption, but who are now going to go undercover to exact their price ???

However, if this is the case, it does ring the bell from last week which pointed out that for some reason, the Tories are far more terrified of the Brexiteers than it is the electorate ??????

Violetparis · 12/09/2017 18:59

Wasn't surprised by Dennis Skinner's vote at all, I like him but not with him on this one.

SwedishEdith · 12/09/2017 19:10

Seen on FB via Twitter - no idea if accurate/correct etc.

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?
RedToothBrush · 12/09/2017 19:10

Jo Maugham QC‏****@JolyonMaugham
Here it is. The key - 'official' Labour - amendment to the Repeal Bill (along with the clause it's amending)

ORIGINAL CLAUSE
"exit day" means such day as a Minister of the Crown may by regulations appoint (and see subsection (2))

PROSPOSED AMENDMENT
(sponsored by Jeremy Corbyn, Mr Nicholas Brown, Keir Starmer, Jenny Chapman, Matthew Pennycook, Paul Blomfield, Valerie Vaz)

Clause 14, page 10, line 25, leave out "a Minister of the Crown may by regulations" and insert "Parliament may by a majority approval in both Houses"

Jo Maugham QC‏****@JolyonMaugham
This is basically it. If this clause goes through unamended I think we will end up in no-deal territory. Lobby your MP.

Jo Maugham QC‏****@JolyonMaugham

The key Tory amendment - this one - tries to do similar work but (I think, with respect) is flawed.

PROSPOSED AMENDMENT
(sponsored by Mr Dominic Grieve, Mr Kenneth Clarke, Nicky Morgan, Anna Soubry, Antoinette Sandbach, Stephen Hammond, Dr Sarah Wollaston, Jeremy Lefroy, Robert Neill)

Clause 9, page 6, line 45, at end insert "subject to the prior enactment of a statute by Parliament approving the final terms of withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union.

Jo Maugham QC‏****@JolyonMaugham
It is (imo) flawed because c.9 only assumes - it does not require - a withdrawal agreement. We could still crash out with no Parl. vote.

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