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Brexit

Has anybody changed their mind about how they voted?

746 replies

fakenamefornow · 07/09/2017 09:07

It seems not many people have?

OP posts:
PebblesFlintstone · 10/09/2017 11:58

There's a higher political class who isn't interested in Individual countries just the higher EU pie in the sky do it at whatever cost

My concern is that there's a higher political class within the UK who aren't interested in individual people, just setting up their dream of a deregulated economy eradicating workers rights and driving wages down further, without our EU membership holding them in check. See what Jacob Rees-Mogg has said as a very worrying example of this kind of thinking.

In their ideal world there will be a small, wealthy elite with private health cover and the means to pay for private education while the rest of us plebs scrabble around for the scraps they wish to share with us. The deliberate underfunding of the NHS and education are already steps towards this IMO.

Cobblersandhogwash · 10/09/2017 12:13

Sinuhe, Britain decided to leave. Why should the EU do anything other than look out for itself and make sure Britain pays its dues.

Cobblersandhogwash · 10/09/2017 12:15

Yes the EU does affect laws in the UK. And we contribute to them. All part of the agreement. All part of being a member of the club.

So which laws in particular would you like to get rid of? Which laws have made your life so intolerable?

Peregrina · 10/09/2017 12:26

Which laws have made your life so intolerable?

Which we didn't either sponsor ourselves, or didn't vote for?
If they are ones in that category then you need to blame our own Government.

If we succeed in leaving, who are you going to blame then?

YokoReturns · 10/09/2017 12:36

I went to school with Michael Tomlinson. It's a shame he's a Eurosceptic.

Manclife · 10/09/2017 14:24

Feel free to read the whole thread and answer you own questions.

fakenamefornow · 10/09/2017 18:04

If the remainers want to know why they lost they should look inward. Had the 'they're all racist' or 'it's just about £350m on the side of a bus' and the genuine concerns dealt with perhaps it would gone the other way.

Actually I think race hate is a very real issue within the Leave vote. Most people I know who voted Leave ARE racist. If they were interviewed in the street their concerns would sound very measured, in private, they really let rip about immigrants all being benefit scroungers, criminals etc. I know I might live in a bit of a bubble but these views are also reflected in similar ratios (racist/non racist) on the social media Leave groups I follow. I find all this dismissing and minimising as a tiny number very worrying, why are Leave voters so determined to ignore it or pretend it doesn't exist?

I predict if any Leave voter comes back to respond to this it will just be to attack me for even raising this.

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Cobblersandhogwash · 10/09/2017 18:12

And how many laws did we vote down that actually got made into law? Something 2% isn't it?

Brexshit is barking. There is no doubt about it.

Peregrina · 10/09/2017 18:50

I voted Remain, have read the whole thread, and am not objecting to EU laws, the vast majority of which we agreed with. I do get annoyed with Westminster laws, and am happy to write to my MP to express my opinions. Over the years as the MPs have changed, they have varied in their responses - some clearly do take their constituents concerns seriously - others really can't be bothered.

QuentinSummers · 10/09/2017 19:13

Immigration is an issue for those in low income jobs yet people talk about 'net benefit'
What exactly is the issue with immigration? Most places that voted leave have very low immigration. I think this is xenophobia stoked by the Daily Mail but if you can describe an actual issue is be interested to hear it.

For me it's more like an unhappy relationship that's come to an end. Sure it may not be much better breaking up but it can't be any worse.
Yep, can't get any worse than when we were one of the most powerful economies in the world, had a veto and place at the negotiating table of a huge trading block, could travel and work wherever we wanted across a large part of the world, had not had any European unrest for many years. Can't get any worse than that. Lol.

ommmward · 10/09/2017 19:36

I voted leave. I'd vote the same way again. My impression is that most people are thoroughly entrenched in their position, and I agree with what people said upthread - that that's because, in the end, it was a vote that rested on identity and emotion (and virtue signalling too, to a large degree).

Our impressions of how the Brexit process is going are hugely affected by the kind of media we read. If we read the Guardian, then anything positive is "despite Brexit". They know their readership will click on article headlines that feed their anxiety/ anger about Brexit. If we read Guido, then it's all going pretty well. (and similarly click-baity in the opposite direction).

In the end, David D is just the mouthpiece. Behind him, there is an army of Whitehall mandarins and lawyers going over any proposed agreements with a fine tooth comb and, similarly, there's an army of Brussels mandarins and lawyers going over the UK's proposals. They'll find some agreement that is legally acceptable to both sides, but there'll be lots of willy waving at the press conferences along the way.

Why did I vote Leave? Because I really don't like being part of a club of rich white northern hemisphere people, who have tariff free trade between themselves, which makes it hard for people from poorer parts of the world to trade competitively into that market. I'd rather have a more level playing field, globally, which means not participating in that rich white northern trading bloc, but opening up possibilities of more mutually beneficial trade agreements with different countries. And that may well mean that we end up relatively poorer. If we are in favour of less global inequality, then us being less relatively wealthy would be a good thing, no?

Plonkysaurus · 10/09/2017 19:46

Thanks for sharing that document @Peregrina. My MP (Nigel Mills) is on there, disgrace to humanity that he is.

Plonkysaurus · 10/09/2017 20:12

Oh and, I voted remain and would do again.

I believe that we never took our membership seriously, and the press trashed the EU rather than telling us about the good things our EU membership brings. The only reason I ever hesitated was for the reason that @ommward outlined earlier. In being inclusive of some European nations, the EU is, by definition, exclusive. So I see the appeal of Lexit.

But the UK is in a deeply troubling place, nationally speaking. A decade of austerity has destroyed much of what we should celebrate in our country, not least our legacy of openness, tolerance, and education. I might be able to get behind brexit if it were being navigated by a happy, healthy country with an effective, intelligent government. It'd still be difficult even in more favourable circumstances. Right now though? The words piss up and brewery come to mind.

retreatwhispering · 10/09/2017 20:22

I voted remain and would do so again. The past year has only strengthened my position.

However I dislike the way that leavers have been characterised as racist little Englanders. The leavers I know had sincere worries about democracy and accountability. They knew that Brexit would be tough and chaotic but felt that a time of hardship would be worth it for 'taking back control'.

fakenamefornow · 10/09/2017 20:32

My impression is that most people are thoroughly entrenched in their position

Completely agree. I think the Tory party is in a very bad position with Brexit, whichever way they go they will completely alienate a big chunk of the electorate and as Brexit isn't party political a lot of them will be Tory voters.

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Manclife · 10/09/2017 21:36

"I voted to leave the EU. That doesn’t make me an idiot or a xenophobe"

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/30/voted-leave-eu-racist-idiot-intolerance-brexiters

QuentinSummers · 10/09/2017 21:42

ommward how do you square that position with the govt. saying their priority trade deal is with the US followed by Australia and New Zealand? I think trading with countries like Romania and Poland within the EU has done more for global equality than trading with US, Australia and New Zealand will do outside the EU

QuentinSummers · 10/09/2017 21:46

man that article doesn't help move my understanding forward at all. He basically says there are racist leave voters, then others who are concerned about immigration, but not why they are concerned.

Frankly given the number of fuckwit MPs in safe seats (Labour and Tory) I don't know why everyone gets so aerated about being able to select the EU representation. We do a crap job of it here, we need a different electoral system.

lalalonglegs · 10/09/2017 22:15

To be fair to the writer, that article was published on 30 June last year so a few short days after the referendum result. Few of us realised what a shitstorm of racism and xenophobia there was to come - encouraged in some ways by the government itself (I'm thinking of the countless cases of "mistake" letters from the Home Office telling legitimately-settled immigrants that they needed to leave the country; the speech by Amber Rudd at the Conservative Party Conference; the leaked HO report on immigration post-Brexit last week; TM's "Citizens of Nowhere" speech etc etc etc).

I agree that voting Leave doesn't make someone xenophobic or idiotic - and very few on MN claim that - but it certainly doesn't mean that the Leave vote was supported by xenophobes and some people with very ill-informed (imo) ideas and that the result and tabloid cheerleading has given succour to their views.

Corcory · 10/09/2017 22:27

I agree with Ommmward with regard to trade with other parts of the world. Obviously remainers pick up on the 'old colonial connections' thing and go on about the 'English speaking countries who we would obviously find easier to get trade deals with and with whom we have done a lot of trade in the past. But there are lots of parts of the world I feel the free trade agreement within the EU affects adversely. I am thinking in particular many parts of Africa where so many people are trying to escape and come to the EU from. The rich white EU have a lot to answer for.

Wormysquirmy · 10/09/2017 22:33

Leave voter. Knew it would he a shambles and it is. It was always going to be.

Voted leave for many, many reasons not least the nonsensical notion that unelected twats like Juncker have huge influence over our affairs.

I don't know anyone who has changed their mind.

ommmward · 10/09/2017 22:40

I would expect the uk to make trade agreements with big economies first. That's a no brainer, and if the government weren't doing that, everyone would be moaning about "why are they faffing around concentrating on a trade deal with some tiny country that we'll do tuppence hapenny trade with per annum?".

There are probably all sorts of bits of trade deals that non-EU countries have with the EU trading bloc where it's irrelevant to our domestic economy -we don't grow oranges (or whatever, I'm making it up) but the EU countries that DO grow oranges will have insisted on there being a high enough tariff on oranges from outside that their orange farmers get the lions share of the trade. Of course that's how it works; that's what a protectionist trading bloc IS. Even if it's a few years down the line, the UK now has the opportunity to do a deal with my hypothetical orange growing country that is much much better for them than what the EU is offering (because why would it be in our interest to put a big tariff on oranges?).i don't know whether our country will do something honourable here, but we have the chance to do something more honourable than staying within the single market.

Peregrina · 11/09/2017 01:06

Is New Zealand a big economy? If we did trade deals with big economies, why haven't we sent trade delegations to China as a starter?

We might have a chance to do something more honourable, but our Government doesn't even seem very interested in doing things honourably with its own citizens e.g. Grenfell. The current crop of Tory MPs are more interested in voting for the Tory party interests than the good of the country, so why should they suddenly wake up and treat the rest of the world honourably?

BrandNewHouse · 11/09/2017 04:55

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BrandNewHouse · 11/09/2017 05:06

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