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Brexit

Westminstenders: The wrong homework

999 replies

HashiAsLarry · 31/08/2017 21:49

I'm no rtb but I'll give it a shot, though her efforts deserve much more than me.

The August negotiation round has, well, fizzled out in much the same way as any other. It's taken over a year to get to written position papers and there's still no clue as to a direction from the UK government.

Japan, meanwhile, is about to sign off on a deal with the EU. A deal we want to copy.

@faisalislam
^but if post brexit britain's trade deal with third biggest economy in world is to be based on Brussels' deal, what about rest? TTIP? Canada?
...when PM signs off statements like this on primacy of EU-third party deals, one wonders how temporary the temporary customs union will be^

The NHS is now launching a drive to recruit foreign GPs, like the ones that have left thanks to Brexit. It's a good job they'll be £350m a week better off now. Oh hang on...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Theworldisfullofidiots · 02/09/2017 12:46

The very fervent leave campaigner I know think the government are making a complete mess of it. His view is because remainers are leading it Hmm

HashiAsLarry · 02/09/2017 12:55

The thing I still find most stupid in all of this was there was a way to achieve a somewhat positive outcome for the vast majority of people, except the ultras on each side. But it would have taken time and putting the needs of the country first, and of course taking the advice of the advisory referendum rather than treating it like a proper referendum.

OP posts:
HesterThrale · 02/09/2017 17:07

'The government are making a mess of it.... because Remainers are leading it.'
Theworld do you think that is going to be the perception of Leavers if Brexit fails? It's surely being led by Leavers Davis, Johnson and Fox; and May, who seems to all intents and purposes to now be a Leaver. How could they think that?

woman12345 · 02/09/2017 17:27

You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2017 17:36

or from a horse's behind

woman12345 · 02/09/2017 17:37

@JolyonMaugham
Let's wait for the detail. But this looks encouraging...

Brexit: Labour demands big changes to Great Repeal Bill

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/768be7e0-8f4e-11e7-8a9b-cc2ed7ce991f

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2017 17:55

Most Leave voters still seem to believe the UK could make a unicorn cake deal

We can't really blame them, because:

  • Prominent Brexit ultras during the Referendum campaign were promising this
  • May and those she appointed have publicly made this their negotiating aim
  • The Tory media stridently insist the E27 will cave in

So if Brexit leads to an economic downturn, higher prices, lost jobs .....
then most of these voters will put it down to a mixture of the EU "punishing" the UK and the "liberal elite" betraying it.

The alternative would be to admit they were duped and that the hated liberal elite were right after all.

SwedishEdith · 02/09/2017 18:05

It's surely being led by Leavers Davis, Johnson and Fox; and May, who seems to all intents and purposes to now be a Leaver. How could they think that?

Because it makes it easier to process. It's easier to look for a scapegoat.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2017 18:07

( Article woman referenced - paywall)
Brexit: Labour demands big changes to Great Repeal Bill*

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-labour-demands-big-changes-to-great-repeal-bill-fg9tghm78

Labour is to launch an all-out assault on the government’s “undemocratic” and “unacceptable” plans to legislate for Brexit, setting the scene for months of parliamentary warfare

Ministers are due to introduce the so-called Great Repeal Bill for its second reading in the House of Commons on Thursday.

The bill incorporates most existing EU law into domestic legislation while repealing the act that took Britain into the EU in 1973.

But in a sign of the parliamentary battles ahead,
Labour has written to David Davis, the Brexit secretary, demanding wholesale changes to the legislation and warning that it fails to guarantee “crucial rights and protections” for citizens.

Significantly the letter, which has been passed to The Times,
calls for the bill to be altered to ensure that it does not rule out Britain’s continuing participation in the single market, customs union and European Court of Justice during a transition period.

It also demands that parliament be given the right to replicate new European laws on workers’ rights, the environment and consumer protection that are passed by the EU after Britain leaves the bloc.

With a working majority of just 13, government whips have told Theresa May she faces an uphill struggle to pass the bill unamended.

Labour intends to appeal to pro-European Tory backbenchers to get behind its new “softer” Brexit strategy with a series of amendments that will be published in autumn.

In the letter Sir Keir Starmer, Labour’s shadow Brexit secretary,
accuses Mr Davis of using the legislation to hand “unprecedented and undemocratic powers” to ministers while “grabbing power” from the devolved administrations in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

“As drafted, the bill would sideline parliament on key decisions, hoard unnecessary powers in Whitehall and fail to guarantee crucial rights and protections after we leave the EU,”

“These concerns are serious, reasonable and responsible.
They are not designed to frustrate Brexit but to ensure that the right approach is taken and that jobs, living standards and rights are protected.”

He said that unless the government moved to address its concerns,
Labour would have “no choice but to oppose this divisive and deficient legislation”

Senior Labour figures believe that the government is vulnerable to defeat in several key areas.

Among them are so-called Henry VIII powers in the legislation
that would allow ministers to change UK law after Brexit without the need for a vote in the House of Commons.

Other controversial areas include
repealing the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights from UK law on Brexit day
without replicating it in domestic law.

The bill as it stands would also mean
UK citizens losing their right to sue the UK government for damages as a result of a failure to comply with their own laws.

This could affect areas such as environment pollution where the government has repeatedly failed to meet EU standards, which critics say has caused long-term damage to health.

Sir Keir told The Times that the bill made a mockery of the Leave campaign’s pledge to “take back control” of Britain’s laws.

“Far from taking back control, this bill puts control firmly in the hands of ministers, not parliament
The power to decide what transitional arrangements should be put in place and when they take effect should be for parliament.”

The government is yet to signal whether it is prepared to concede on any of the demands or will try to tough it out and force its pro-EU MPs into line.

prettybird · 02/09/2017 18:10

"You cannot please both the goat and the cabbage" Grin

Different versions across Europe Wink

http://www.politico.eu/article/a-brief-history-of-having-cake-and-eating-it/

woman12345 · 02/09/2017 18:12

Speaking of behinds

Westminstenders: The wrong homework
woman12345 · 02/09/2017 18:24

Thank goodness for Starmer. Time to write to MPs again...................

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2017 18:28

woman So apt GrinGrin

Theworldisfullofidiots · 02/09/2017 18:40

HesterThrale I don't know. Probably.
He is ex-tory, then ex-ukip and last election actively campaigned against the Tories. He is an idealist and we have had some challenging conversations when he cites how corrupt the EU and can't prove one statement. (I've disproved them). I sent him some questions at the beginning of the summer. He hasn't answered one.

Theworldisfullofidiots · 02/09/2017 18:41

Dh is predicting riots either way Brexit goes...

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2017 18:43

(paywall) Sacrebleu, our Del Boy gets lost in translation GrinGrin

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/sacrebleu-our-del-boy-gets-lost-in-translation-05ll0hqfc

The monthly press conference that David Davis and Michel Barnier hold at the end of each round of Brexit negotiations is starting to resemble a game show,

one in which the audience have to guess how the talks have gone from two completely contrasting descriptions.

“We’re not making much progress,” sighed Mr Barnier
with all the enthusiasm of a Frenchman who has ordered the cheese trolley at the end of lunch and been given a choice of Babybel and La Vache Qui Rit. Grin
“Time is passing quickly.”

“Au contraire, mon bonnet de douche,”
riposted Mr Davis, the Del Boy of the privy council.

“In fact, we are making concrete progress.”

This just made me think
— perhaps because the Brexit secretary has the look of an East End boxing promoter —
of someone in Blue Circle boots being pushed off the Isle of Dogs and progressing to the bottom of the Thames. Hmm

Mr Barnier was unconvinced. He kept talking about the “legal obligations” that Britain has to the EU, which appear to be low on Mr Davis’s list of priorities. “It’s all about creating trust,” the Frenchman said. “There are still areas where we need to build trust.”

The relationship between Britain and the EU,
as a former secretary of the English Rugby Football Union once said about his nation and the Welsh,
is based on trust and understanding:
they don’t trust us and we can’t understand them.
< unfortunately true >

Well what does the EU expect when Mr Barnier keeps slipping between French and English without the need to reach for his Larousse?
His press conferences are properly bilingual.
“Lundi, j’ai dit à David, ‘I am concerned’,”
Mr Barnier said at the start of his statement,

before veering off into his native tongue for a bit to talk about the orders he has been given by the European parliament

and then slipping easily back into English to warn of “consequences” if we don’t reach an agreement.

Mr Davis did not seem flustered by this threat.

He flicked out his translation earpiece with a gesture that seemed to say “mangetout, ma crêpe suzette”

and set about explaining that it is the EU that needs to buck up its ideas.
“We want a deep and special relationship. But we’ll only get that through flexibility.”

He was rather keen on the F-word.
Several times, the Brexit secretary argued that Britain is being more “flexible” than the EU. Hmm

It can only be a matter of time before a new portmanteau is born — Brexible:
the act of working such contortions that you can’t tell your culus from your cubitus,
as Jacob Rees-Mogg would say.

From their body language it seems that Mr Barnier regards his counterpart as a right pain in the culus

“You appear to be angry,” a journalist told him.
“I have shown the calm of a mountaineer,” Mr Barnier said, implying that he is more on-piste than piste-off.

“If I get angry it will be very obvious, I can assure you.”

He then accused Britain of showing “a sort of nostalgia”
with its have-cake-and-eat-it approach to wanting the EU benefits without being in it.

“It’s just a belief in the free market, mon vieux parapluie,”
Mr Davis replied, all sweetness and innocence.

He had the cheeky look of someone who intends to see just how far he can push this relaxed mountaineer towards an avalanche at their monthly summit meetings,

but whose chalets will end up being crushed by it? Hmm

woman12345 · 02/09/2017 18:56

Grin that's great. "We've got very good lawyers." sounds like an 'Only Fools and Horses' line too.

BiglyBadgers · 02/09/2017 19:52

Didn't Davis have Barnier a gift of a book on mountaineering of some sort at the start of the talks? Is that a witty reference from Monsieur Barnier? Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2017 20:43

Scathing article in full, from Suddeutstche Zeitung (largest German broadsheeet, v prestigious) English language version:

http://international.sueddeutsche.de/post/164858513755/great-britains-fantastic-four

May, DD & Fox should read this, to banish their delusions that Germany will side with them
I suspect Bojo has always known this - he's clever enough, just lacking moral principles and any sense of responsibility.

May reportedly still thinks she can convince Merkel one-to-one, because they "have a lot in common" Hmm
Both conservative, similar age, the daughters of protestant clergymen and .... that's it.

BMacklin · 02/09/2017 20:51

"the quartet of the clueless"! Grin Ouch!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2017 20:54

They couldn't resist the dig about the England football team Grin Cruel, but true

BMacklin · 02/09/2017 21:05

bigchoc yes i noticed that. The similarities in the blind, arrogant, "England is so great and Europe fears us" stance in both football and brexit is startling when you think about it.

RandomlyGenerated · 02/09/2017 23:16

England is still stuck in the "two world wars and one World Cup, doo dah, doo dah" mentality when it comes to Germany.

HesterThrale · 02/09/2017 23:18

Lib Dem conference to debate a motion calling for A50 to be reversed:

newcastle-libdems.org.uk/en/article/2017/1230937/liberal-democrats-to-call-for-reversal-of-article-50

lalalonglegs · 02/09/2017 23:56

The Observer is predicting a Tory revolt and possible leadership challenge as May tries to whip backbenchers into supporting her over Brexit. I won't hold my breath just yet...

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