Westminstenders: The wrong homework

[HashiAsLarry]

I'm no rtb but I'll give it a shot, though her efforts deserve much more than me.

The August negotiation round has, well, fizzled out in much the same way as any other. It's taken over a year to get to written position papers and there's still no clue as to a direction from the UK government.

Japan, meanwhile, is about to sign off on a deal with the EU. A deal we want to copy.

@faisalislam
^but if post brexit britain's trade deal with third biggest economy in world is to be based on Brussels' deal, what about rest? TTIP? Canada?
...when PM signs off statements like this on primacy of EU-third party deals, one wonders how temporary the temporary customs union will be^

The NHS is now launching a drive to recruit foreign GPs, like the ones that have left thanks to Brexit. It's a good job they'll be £350m a week better off now. Oh hang on...

We could split it like Berlin caill, I mean nothing went wrong there did it
I know it would work btw, but in its terribleness it does seem more coherant a policy than anything coming from this goverment.

WOULDN'T
WOULDN'T work ffs

Phillipe Legrain @ plegrain
Leaked Home Office doc on post-Brexit EU immigration rules epitomises Theresa May's economically illiterate, command-and-control approach 1/
It's based on false premise that most EU migrants don't benefit British people, when in fact their complementary efforts make us richer 2/
Do vital jobs (including low-skilled ones in areas like social care), subsidise our pensions & public services (and help provide them). 3/
Based on that false premise, it presumes that incompetent Home Office bureaucrats can better decide which migrants UK needs & which not 4/
& that the costly, complex, harmful rules governing non-EU migration are a model for managing EU migration in future 5/
& with Brexit negotiations already deadlocked, it signals to the EU not that Theresa May is seeking a "deep & special partnership" 6/
But rather that May views our fellow Europeans as a threat and a burden. Let's hope Amber Rudd prevents this nasty act of self-harm 7/7

@StevePeers

1/ A few thoughts on the government's leaked post Brexit migration paper. Unfortunately it contains several false or misleading statements.
2 This is false. EU free movement is not "unconditional" - as the document itself goes on to recognise.
3 This is misleading. The Repeal Bill will end ECJ jurisdiction for post Brexit judgments but maintain pre Brexit rulings as precedent.
4 What the govt means to say is that it wishes to overturn these pre Brexit ECJ rulings immediately - a derogation from the normal rule.
5 Govt wants migration policy to raise GDP/capita. OK but are there really no stats on whether EU citizens do so now? (Bat signal @jdportes)
6 "Virtually no limit" on EU family: highly misleading & inflammatory. In other words, tabloid BS. No competent civil servant should sign.
7 I'll demonstrate. Here's the EU free movement law clause on extended family. Note the words "shall...facilitate". Not a right to enter.
8 There's only one ECJ judgment on this - Rahman, concerning the UK. The ECJ confirms admission is discretionary, not a right.
9 Finally, asylum. Dublin will end but UK will seek revised relationship with EU. Maybe German carmakers will make this happen for us.
10 Substantive asylum law coming from EU (first phase EU asylum law) won't be changed for now. "Here's some scapegoats we saved for later"
11 Overall the post Brexit plans don't surprise me much. Hard to believe the govt's most incompetent ministry can administer them though. 12 The false and misleading parts are unusual for a govt document. I assume they were written by a political hack who misunderstands EU law.
13 That could be any number of people of course. The Dunning Kruger effect is now a contagious disease in UK and USA. /ends

These visas that only allow doctors to work here for five years, mean that if you are an EU doctor what would be the point in starting a life here if you could buy a house elsewhere in Europe? And there is no guarantee you can bring your family here?

What kind of lunatic would even consider that as an option?

Not the best doctors, that's for sure.

J J Patrick @ J_amesp
The Home Office's Britain First immigration policy will not only tear families apart, but it's likely to see UK jobseekers moved seasonally.
And if you combine what it outlines with the power grab the Repeal Bill facilitates, there are more than shadows of Hitler's Germany.
We are within a hair's breadth of completing the transition from democracy to legalised dictatorship. And we won't make it back.

I have a worry here too. Last year when Amber Rudd did her speech the outrage to it was huge. I am concerned that the reaction to this paper won't be as strong as we've started to be desensitised to it and talk like this has been normalised as acceptable.

There are also lots of people who spoke out last year who have either left the country or are planning to as a direct result of policy like this.

I will repeat again. This is fascist in nature and May threatens democracy in this country.

Shona Jolly QC @ womaninhavana
The #RepealBill gives excessive power to govt, & has weak Parliamentary scrutiny provisions. @HansardSociety proposes a scrutiny solution.

www.hansardsociety.org.uk/blog/a-parliamentary-scrutiny-solution-for-the-eu-withdrawal-bill
A Parliamentary Scrutiny Solution For The EU (Withdrawal) Bill

Adam Bienkov @ adambienkov
Food and drink industry "alarmed" by Theresa May's leaked immigration proposals which "show a deep lack of understanding."

No one said it would be easy Part 45

Diane Abbott, Shadow Home Secretary, responding to leaked Home Office documents said:

"Labour wants fair rules and reasonable management of migration in accordance with the needs of economy and our values as a party."

"This leaked document is not yet government policy. If it becomes so, we will judge it against the criteria we have laid out".

2/10. Lame response. Must make much more effort to be convincing.

Very disappointed in that.

These visas that only allow doctors to work here for five years, mean that if you are an EU doctor what would be the point in starting a life here if you could buy a house elsewhere in Europe? And there is no guarantee you can bring your family here?

But they are starting a recruitment drive to get more overseas health care professionals to come. If I were one, I would tell them thanks but no thanks. They could try ensuring the futures of those who have already made their homes here and given dedicated service.

there are more than shadows of Hitler's Germany.

Absolutely. I am just reading Feuchtwangers 'The Oppermanns - written in 1934 describing such a rise, and the similarities have struck me once again. Cue Leavers jumping in to tell us not to be ridiculous - it's nothing like Nazi Germany. The same comments are made in the book - this won't happen to such a cultured nation. It did and Germany bears the scars still.

But they are starting a recruitment drive to get more overseas health care professionals to come. If I were one, I would tell them thanks but no thanks. They could try ensuring the futures of those who have already made their homes here and given dedicated service

Joined up thinking in action

Still, we're all reassured now that we've been told it's all a storm in a teacup and not as bad as it could be, if only we had read (and interpreted) that leaked article in the correct manner.

What it is consistent with, is the idea that foreigners are some form of not-entirely-human, somewhat cold-blooded economic units.

They are all coming here because and thus they will feel little hardship or concern if they face uncertainty. Conversely, if they have some perceptible attribute that we currently desire, well they can simply be inserted like cogs into the machine for a temporary period until they can be supplanted by superior British actual people, at which point they may be summarily ejected.

How could anyone object to such a rational economic calculation?

The irony with the EU doctors is that at the same time, they have broken the social contract with uk-trained doctors. In particular, if you are required to privately fund the cost of your own training to become a doctor, with no recognition of healthcare as a public good, you in turn owe no reciprocal moral obligation to 'give back' to the public health sector. Canada, Australia etc must look very inviting.

If there is sufficient backlash, there will no doubt be a statement about how they were just tossing ideas around. A bit like Grammar Schools, Fox hunting and the 'demetia tax'.

I would seriously question whether there is a mandate now to leave the EU. The voters in traditional Labour areas liked Jeremy Corbyn's offer at the last election, and didn't defect to the Tories, as May expected. IMO if efforts were made to end austerity and provide decent work, the Leave voting areas would mostly change their minds. I am quite sure the vote was in many cases a two fingers to Cameron one.

Many many moons ago I worked on a project that helped fund refugee Drs who, despite years of fantastic experience, couldn't get work here because their qualifications weren't up to level. It was always wonderful to hear about them once they'd completed and how happy they were to be working within the NHS (normally). I don't think a lot of people realise how hard it is to recruit overseas Drs with requisite levels of qualifications on a worldwide scale.

mother nah it's fine coz he's a Tory. It's not like he's a lefty or a liberal 🤔

How well do you think training refugees up as doctors is going to go down with Leave.EU?

If refugees got a leg up because of changes to immigration, that would be a plus.

However, I'm not that stupid to think that is even a remote possibility. Refugees are even lesser creatures than those awful EU immigrants who only come her to steal jobs and claim benefits and take all our houses and school places and block our hospital beds.

A Catholic? You mean he subscribes to a religion that is governed by a body in .......Europe?

Good follow up article rounding up reactions so far. Broadly speaking I agree with Frank Field, but I also think Yvette has a point and Diane's measured response strikes a decent balance. I also think it does the EU no harm to know where the government thinking is unofficially in terms of concentrating minds. I can see lots of extreme free marketers wanting a Singapore / Hong Kong style servant economy not liking the proposals.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/05/angry-parliamentary-debate-after-post-brexit-immigration-plans-leaked?CMP=twt_gu

In terms of NI and ROI as there is no intention to alter CTA etc Irish citizens will be unaffected and will benefit from having a competitive advantage over rEU.

Re Refugee Glasgow doctors this is an old story. Surprised the BBC are profiling it today because there was so much of substance in NS's government programme yesterday which they could and should be covering not just in Scotland but to demonstrate to rUK how Devolution is working - lots of the proposals even have cross party agreement in Holyrood.

My personal view is that training up and reintegrating refugees we give asylum to should absolutely be a priority both to benefit us and them and this is completely in line with the leaked proposals re prioritising those who are in the UK and treating people equally. I can also attest that Glaswegian is in fact unintelligible to most English speakers even if you speak it as eloquently as I do.

No one said it would be easy continued.

Those editors and journalists are dreadful at misquoting Tory MPs....

Re JRM, Tim Farron would probably have fared far better if he had been as honest and open in articulating his views.

Tucking - we're not staying in the EU though so not really much point in looking backwards. We have to look forward and think of solutions. As I have said I have no idea what we will do about unskilled workers. Could we have exempt occupations?

Well, we're still in the EU at the moment and by no means guaranteed to leave, so I disagree about there being no point in looking backwards. Especially as it's not even backwards, it's the here and now.

But yes, we could have exempt occupations. There are already occupations on the Tier 2 list where the required salary isn't that high. No reason carers couldn't be one of them. However, that would require a level of forethought, common sense and acceptance of reality that I've not seen from any government in recent years.

Irish times breakthrough in Irish strand
At the end of the third round of talks in Brussels, Mr Barnier and his UK counterpart David Daviss^articulated a mutual understanding that the British-Irish Common Travel Area would remain largely unchanged after Brexit, allowing EU citizens to travel – but not necessarily work – within both jurisdictions.
Travelling, but not settling or working, is a pretty major change to CTA.

Perhaps JRM is an EU "sleeper" cunningly put here to become PM and foil any attempt at Brexit? The High Tory Catholic gent persona is his alter ego, in reality he is a committed Europhile and secretly working towards a European superstate. Having a father who was Editor of the Times is the perfect additional touch to his cover (father became Editor in 1967 so they put plans into place well beforehand).