Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/08/2017 09:43

Nigel Farage @ Nigel_Farage
Cannot believe we're seeing Nazi salutes in 21st century America.

Yeah, that's what we said on 16th June 2016, when some dickhead stood in front of a poster.

The thing is, what Farage says with faux surprise isn't unusual or isolated to him. It's widespread. It's perhaps the norm rather than the exception in many circles.

It's represents a total lack of self awareness. It represents the disconnect that what comes out of your mouth tends to have an effect on the people around you, whether intentioned that way or not when you talk about 'others' or 'not belonging'.

It's a direct effect of nationalism.

Patriotism seems to be something that people have totally lost the plot with and don't understand. It's used as a defence for nationalism. It is the last defence of the scoundrel. Patriotism and being pro-EU or not being a racist dick are not mutually exclusive, though you'd be forgiven for thinking differently these days.

I think a lot of people will sit and go, "Look at America, that is awful. I'm glad we are not like that".

Except we are far more than we realise. Grenfell says much about that.

There's an phrase and Southern Wolves and Northern Wolves when it comes to racism in America. The UK is like the Northern Wolf. Sly and silver tongued to justify and hide racism because 'Look they are worse than us. We are the good guys'.

A bit like saying, you talked to an EU citizen and they were just as racist as me, so Brexit is ok.

It's the twisted desperation to justify the othering rather than take responsibility for enabling and emboldening racism. Then dressing it up as some legitimate political cause which actually you have zero understanding or comprehension of the consequences of.

Brexit has some deep roots in Nazi type fantasies. You can not separate the idea that Britain is superior and Brits are better than Europeans from too much Brexit logic. The Empire was not a pretty thing for much of the world. It's worrying.

Not to mention we've had a right wing attack on a group of people outside a mosque in this fashion before the US had that attack yesterday.

Let's not think that because we haven't had blokes with tiki torches providing a photographic opportunity and theatre for the TV producer that we are somehow 'better'. Or not as bad as America.

The only real difference between them and us is the brash openness about it and the fact they have a bunch of guns.

This was predictable. Indeed I expected and I expect more. There will be more and it will get far, far worse in the US. Yesterday was just the start. Trump wants it. He will fuel it. He will capitalise from it. Yes your mate Donald loves a bit of bigotry, Nig.

There no guarantees it won't happen here for various reasons. It just is characterised in a slightly different way because we are British and don't really do brash in anything as it's not our way.

It's too easy for Farage. Or Johnson. Or May. Or whoever to just walk away and innocently say they are shocked and bear no responsibility because they don't wave Nazi flags about.

You don't have to do that, to share the same values or believe the same thing. Salutes and flags are just branding. A repackaged version for the 21st century is even more dangerous.

We won't forget who Farage hangs out with or courts for publicity and attention. Farage only says and does what he thinks he can get away with. That's part of the ugly truth.

We still have not even started to confront the relationship between racism and Brexit. Indeed, much seems to be happening to suggest that after blaming EU, that there are a Brexit opportunities for scapegoating opening up.

For me yesterday was depressing not because it happened, but because we saw it coming and because our country is in denial about being the same.

Farage is the very personification of it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
Cherrypi · 20/08/2017 04:30

Thanks. Glad I went to sleep. That's not news. What are they playing at?

TheElementsSong · 20/08/2017 07:24

DexEU are going to release some more position papers this week.

That's the big embargoed news? Dear God.

I bet Leavers will be thrilled with this further evidence of how brilliantly well we are implementing our inevitable Making Brexit A Success. No, seriously. They'll be thrilled.

woman12345 · 20/08/2017 07:25

Trust in the Conservatives to lead Brexit negotiations has dropped from 39% in June to 33% in August.

As well as having a bad case of Trump envy, May is now aping his poll trajectory. Maybe nazi supporting PMs have their uses.

Labour on 43 tories on 40.

This time last year, Labour was on the low 20s and tories on 44. Smile

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/19/british-public-believes-transition-period-necessary-for-brexit

Misleading headline here in. Is 'transition period' 'Remain'?

Big old demonstration in Boston yesterday.
Neo nazis unable to muster many eejits in Massachussetts Grin

edition.cnn.com/2017/08/19/us/boston-free-speech-rally/index.html

"It's clear today that Boston stood for peace and love, not bigotry and hate," Boston Mayor Marty Walsh said.

9.9.17 as they say in Spetses. Smile

HashiAsLarry · 20/08/2017 07:42

Came in late last night and thought 'ooohh, I can see that embargoed news'. Saw it wasn't anything and went to bed muttering that I was glad I didn't stay up for that!

woman12345 · 20/08/2017 07:48

This German city is so good at handling neo-Nazis other ones are copying them

This is nice: 'take the piss' festival in Hess's home town.

It’s the original burial place of Rudolf Hess, who was one of Adolf Hitler’s deputies. Every year, neo-nazis march to his grave site – despite the town exhuming Hess’s body in 2011, and removing his gravestone.

So in 2014, the town had a better idea to deal with their unwelcome problem - they turned to humour. Because we all know hatred doesn't like humour.

The annual parade turned into a day of fundraising and fun.

It became a mock sporting event with funny signs and slogans along the route, and rainbow confetti at the end.

www.indy100.com/article/german-city-neo-nazis-wunsiede-bavaria-charlottesville-white-supremacist-7901721?utm_source=indy&utm_medium=top5&utm_campaign=i100

BiglyBadgers · 20/08/2017 07:52

Possibly I have been spending too much time on the American threads, but those posts make Moggy sound like our very own British version of Trump. Born to riches, unprincipled, snuggling up with the further ends of the right. Yuk!

Artisanjam · 20/08/2017 07:55

I saw that in FB yesterday, woman. I love the idea of rededicating the Orange marches!

woman12345 · 20/08/2017 07:59

rededicating the Orange marches Grin great idea!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/08/2017 08:16

Ex-legal chief attacks Theresa May’s ‘foolish’ claim on European court of justice

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/19/brexit-european-court-of-justice-theresa-may-foolish-attack

UK and EU legal experts are becoming increasingly vocal in asserting that the prime minister’s policy is unrealistic and impossible to achieve.
< experts, what do they know after all those years of legal training & practice at the highest levels ? >

“If the UK is to be part of something close enough to a customs union or the single market to remove the need for hard borders, it will only work if the rules are identical to the EU’s own internal rules.

“Not only must they be the same but there must be consistent policing of those rules.
If Theresa May’s red line means we cannot be tied to the ECJ, the Brexit treaty will need to provide a parallel policing system.

“That may be a new court but, in reality, any new court will have to follow what the ECJ says about the EU’s own rules, otherwise the new system won’t work.
So, never mind Theresa May’s foolish red line; we will have the ECJ in all but name.”

BINO !

BigChocFrenzy · 20/08/2017 08:19

There is that persistent rumour (Chapman ?) that May made the ECJ a red line because she confused it with the ECHR Confused

I would like to post confidently that it's impossible for any PM to make such a ridiculous mistake, but ...

woman12345 · 20/08/2017 08:23

UKIP steals Mogg policy

@thetimes
Pay British Indians to go home, says Ukip leadership hopeful John Rees-Evans thetim.es/2vNQqaM

The prominent Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has become embroiled in a race row after he spoke at a dinner organised by an extreme right-wing group which backs the repatriation of ethnic minority Britons.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jacob-rees-mogg-s-after-dinner-speech-to-group-calling-on-doreen-lawrence-to-go-home-8752995.html

BigChocFrenzy · 20/08/2017 08:25

Rising Tory star Jacob Rees‑Mogg among top‑earning MPs

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/rising-tory-star-jacob-rees-mogg-among-top-earning-mps-d8j7dwsq8

Jacob Rees-Mogg, the rising Conservative star reportedly mulling a leadership bid,
is believed to have collected income of more than £1m this year
— and at least £4m since being elected to parliament < in 2010 > —

according to newly published accounts and other declarations.

Rees-Mogg, the MP for North-East Somerset,
does not declare most of the money in the register of MPs’ interests, < bashful ? Hmm > and is not required to.

However, it makes him one of the top earners in the Commons.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/08/2017 08:33

(paywall) Brexit snippets & delusions

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-negotiations-let-us-talk-trade-deals-now-david-davis-tells-eu-0259kj0wz

David Davis is cranking up the pressure on the European Commission to revise the timetable for the Brexit negotiations and to allow discussions to begin on a future trade deal.
< who's under real pressure to get a deal ? Hmm >
.....
a report by a team of economists is published today which claims Brexit could boost the UK economy by £135bn a year.
< exporting unicorn poo Hmm >

The glowing assessment comes in a 50-page report to be published in full in the autumn by Economists for Free Trade,
a group which includes Patrick Minford, professor of economics at Cardiff Business School, and Roger Bootle, chairman of Capital Economics, Europe’s largest macroeconomics consultancy.

< Minford's the one who happily said Brexit might destroy Britain's manufacturing industry, but that it doesn't matter >

Last night Theresa May’s plan to strike a post-Brexit trade deal with America was thrown into doubt
amid fears President Donald Trump may be forced from office before the end of his first term.

One cabinet minister told The Sunday Times there was growing concern that Trump could be impeached:
“There is a view developing that it looks increasingly likely that he will not reach the end of his tenure mainly due to the impeachment opportunities.”

< what a shock, relying on an alt right lifelong racist for a trade deal may not work out >

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 20/08/2017 08:46

The BBC is puffing that Minford report: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40972776

It's hard to imagine what other conclusion a group calling themselves 'Economists for Free Trade' (nee 'Economists for Brexit') would come up with. I suppose it's possible that they could be right and everyone else is wrong (see YouGov pre-election) but from what I understood of the plan is that it would involve filling the country with cheap goods from overseas with limited quality or safety guarantees and killing off entire sectors of our economy.

HashiAsLarry · 20/08/2017 08:55

We should aim to have completely free trade says Economists for Free Trade. No shit.

I noted in the analysis of the BBC article that it was pointed out a major problem is those that lose their jobs in the early days will likely not get back into employment for years, and if they do its likely to be different work. But Minford says the economy can withstand that. Fuck the people though.

RedToothBrush · 20/08/2017 09:06

David Allen Green @ davidallengreen
Ready for the big reveal of what @DExEUgov insisted had to be "strictly embargoed" to midnight?

Not just put up on website, oh no.

So important, its publication had to be done so to tally with the convenience of the Sunday papers, and not of the public, parliament or EU?

This.

"stepping up pressure" with news of two minor position papers in response to already published EU position papers.

Not even the position papers. Just the news the position papers are on their way. Which is not news. We knew they were coming soon.

But government did a strict embargo just in hope of gertting "keeping up pressure" headlines/coverage on back of a non-story.

Pathetic.

Arieh kovler @ ariehkovler
EU: We need to know the British position on key Brexit issues.
UK: Ha! We will pressure you by giving you the thing you've been asking for.

Damn it! I clearly broke the embargo last week when I said the government were a out to publish position papers. And damn it, what happened earlier in the week when the government actually publish 'position pamflets' (let's face it you can't call them papers) on NI and customs union.

Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter
OP posts:
bathildabagshot1 · 20/08/2017 09:06

Minford also admitted that going for completely free trade would destroy our manufacturing base.

Farmers would go out of business because they can't compete with other prices.

It also works on the assumption that other countries would be reciprocal to the UK in opening up their markets. Not going to happen.

Peregrina · 20/08/2017 09:08

I noticed the BBC giving those Economists a big splash. People will see the headlines, and think "that's OK then". They won't see that it's their jobs destroyed and that they might not get work for years. A big like the big red bus lie - they will be told that it was only an idea.

bathildabagshot1 · 20/08/2017 09:14

Sigh.

Minford, the IEA and the Britania Unchained lot all propose the same thing, and one thing people don't realise is that along with tariffs they are proposing removing or lowering employment and saftey legislation too.

A low wage, low regulation economy ripe, run for the benefit of big busiiness and the rentier class whilst your average Brit sees falling living standards.

PattyPenguin · 20/08/2017 09:16

Well, if the UK does unilaterally abolish all trade barriers, as the BBC analysis says, that's the end of UK manufacturing and farming.

I do hope the people who voted Leave because they didn't like the effects of globalisation will be happy with the impact of the globalisation-on-steroids that will ensue.

bathildabagshot1 · 20/08/2017 09:18

Yes its sad isn't it.

In reality what people who voted leave voted for was more protection from globalisation and better public services.

They will get the opposite.

woman12345 · 20/08/2017 09:19

Autarky is not very free tradey, no matter what Dacre's 'economists'/bbc say.

Ms Malmgren, an American who has been a non-executive director at the UK Department for International Trade and an advisor to its secretary Liam Fox since November, said she believed Mr Trump's political style may last more than four years but that he, as President, may not.

She also quashed Brexiteers' "excitement" for a "very big" trade deal with the US, saying that Mr Trump was "hostile to trade" and "cannot magic up a trade deal" with the UK, before adding that Mr Pence would also be "hostile to trade".

This will come as a blow for supporters of Prime Minister Theresa May who has been courting the US President following their first meeting in Washington in January.

She came under fire this week when she condemned the violence by white supremacists during a rally in Charlottesville, Virgina, which killed 32-year-old Heather Heyer but refused to mention Mr Trump's response in her comment.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-less-influence-looking-beyond-vice-president-mike-pence-pippa-malmgren-a7901836.html

Tuba player for the www.dupbribe.org.uk comedy festivals

bathildabagshot1 · 20/08/2017 09:27

The trade deal with the US is interesting, I don't understand why quitlings think that it will be good. TTIP on steroids maybe, but not to benefit the UK population.

lonelyplanetmum · 20/08/2017 09:44

Catching up on thread, after a few days with no wifi,

BigChoc encapsulates the whole week with...what a shock, relying on an alt right lifelong racist for a trade deal may not work out ...

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 20/08/2017 10:07

The feeling that I've got from other parts of the internet is that a beef with the EU is that it behaves more like a "government" than a "trading bloc". The trouble is that if you want to trade, you need to agree rules with your trading partners. This doesn't appear to be new: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League

Swipe left for the next trending thread