Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter

[RedToothBrush]

Nigel Farage @ Nigel_Farage
Cannot believe we're seeing Nazi salutes in 21st century America.

Yeah, that's what we said on 16th June 2016, when some dickhead stood in front of a poster.

The thing is, what Farage says with faux surprise isn't unusual or isolated to him. It's widespread. It's perhaps the norm rather than the exception in many circles.

It's represents a total lack of self awareness. It represents the disconnect that what comes out of your mouth tends to have an effect on the people around you, whether intentioned that way or not when you talk about 'others' or 'not belonging'.

It's a direct effect of nationalism.

Patriotism seems to be something that people have totally lost the plot with and don't understand. It's used as a defence for nationalism. It is the last defence of the scoundrel. Patriotism and being pro-EU or not being a racist dick are not mutually exclusive, though you'd be forgiven for thinking differently these days.

I think a lot of people will sit and go, "Look at America, that is awful. I'm glad we are not like that".

Except we are far more than we realise. Grenfell says much about that.

There's an phrase and Southern Wolves and Northern Wolves when it comes to racism in America. The UK is like the Northern Wolf. Sly and silver tongued to justify and hide racism because 'Look they are worse than us. We are the good guys'.

A bit like saying, you talked to an EU citizen and they were just as racist as me, so Brexit is ok.

It's the twisted desperation to justify the othering rather than take responsibility for enabling and emboldening racism. Then dressing it up as some legitimate political cause which actually you have zero understanding or comprehension of the consequences of.

Brexit has some deep roots in Nazi type fantasies. You can not separate the idea that Britain is superior and Brits are better than Europeans from too much Brexit logic. The Empire was not a pretty thing for much of the world. It's worrying.

Not to mention we've had a right wing attack on a group of people outside a mosque in this fashion before the US had that attack yesterday.

Let's not think that because we haven't had blokes with tiki torches providing a photographic opportunity and theatre for the TV producer that we are somehow 'better'. Or not as bad as America.

The only real difference between them and us is the brash openness about it and the fact they have a bunch of guns.

This was predictable. Indeed I expected and I expect more. There will be more and it will get far, far worse in the US. Yesterday was just the start. Trump wants it. He will fuel it. He will capitalise from it. Yes your mate Donald loves a bit of bigotry, Nig.

There no guarantees it won't happen here for various reasons. It just is characterised in a slightly different way because we are British and don't really do brash in anything as it's not our way.

It's too easy for Farage. Or Johnson. Or May. Or whoever to just walk away and innocently say they are shocked and bear no responsibility because they don't wave Nazi flags about.

You don't have to do that, to share the same values or believe the same thing. Salutes and flags are just branding. A repackaged version for the 21st century is even more dangerous.

We won't forget who Farage hangs out with or courts for publicity and attention. Farage only says and does what he thinks he can get away with. That's part of the ugly truth.

We still have not even started to confront the relationship between racism and Brexit. Indeed, much seems to be happening to suggest that after blaming EU, that there are a Brexit opportunities for scapegoating opening up.

For me yesterday was depressing not because it happened, but because we saw it coming and because our country is in denial about being the same.

Farage is the very personification of it.

Remember that time when Farage could not believe there were Nazis in America?

Nope neither can Nigel...

Nigel Farage @ nigel_farage
Very sorry to see my friend Steve Bannon go. His political brain will be hard to replace.

I've never had any party affiliation and it's my interpretation of actions, rather than a hunch:
A party leader with a plan for the country has the duty to put it forward.
If they don't they either have no plan, or they are playing politics

Almost all politicians in both parties are putting party before country
but obviously the ones in power are doing almost all the damage

In fact, parties & politicians almost always put their own political interests & careers first, but normally self-preservation avoids the most obviously disastrous policies.

The Tory Party blundered into Brexit for internal party reasons and they have dragged Labour into their quagmire - because Labour was too preoccupied with its own civil war to plan policies.

If the govt suddenly collapsed and Labour won the GE, they don't seem to be much better informed than the Tories.

Both main parties are claiming some version of "cake and eat it" deal, because neither is prepared to state the realistic Brexit options - which are all damaging to the economy.

Both view Brexit as a means to implementing policies that would otherwise be politically impossible.

Analyzing Bannon's political brain is like lifting up an old rock and seeing all the creepy nasties in the slimy hole it left.

It's alarming that in both the US and the UK we have such a lack of political talent at a time of crisis.
However, it is of course the lack of talent that created the crises

Last night I saw a civil servant friend who is working on Brexit strategy. Apparently they're banned from using the words 'difficult' and 'challenging'...

Oh, in business speak, "challenge" has long replaced "problem"
What is now acceptable instead of "challenge" ?

Maybe Westministenders can help suggest a replacement

Shitbag ?
Aborted unicorn ?

I believe they're encouraged to say 'opportunity' instead. As in, 'We have an opportunity to ensure that trade with other countries can continue and the gas supply isn't cut off on 29 March 2019'...

Boris to change his mind? Interesting, if true...

mobile.twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/898622135081500672

Everytime I hear a politician say 'opportunity' now I'm going to hear 'we completely fucked this up'

That would be brilliant.

I'd love to believe that, Hashi, but Boris is a calculating bastard and public sentiment hasn't moved enough yet to guarantee him a return on such an announcement. Unless he thinks another of the Brexiteers is about to jump ship and wants to pre-empt them or he knows something about just how bad things are likely to get in the next few weeks and wants to distance himself now...

That would be quite a move from bojo. His success relies on brexit being a success, which it's not going to be in its current form at the very least as its rudderless. He wants to be pm one day, he can't be seen to be at the helm of this screw up. But if he does this, even just to save his own skin, he'll have outmanoeuvred Labour.

lala hahaha that totally confused me, I think you meant hester but for a moment I thought you knew what I was about to post

A chain of communication where commands go down the chain and only good news is allowed to travel up the chain is the mark of totalitarian dictators, and Trump...... He apparently gets a news briefing in the morning that only contains positive stories about him.

Bigchoc The Tory manifesto proposed taking a big chunk of money from their core vote for what is now free (however fair that might be), then U-turned helplessly That was erring on the fake news, the current rules on dementia care are that all your assets can be used to pay for residential care, including your house unless a family member is living there, if they amount to more than £23250. The Tory proposals actually raised this figure to £100k but extended the rules to cover care in the home, which would affect a lot more people. The positive part of the proposal, the raising of the limit on what can be paid for care to 100k limit got lost in the reporting and certainly when I was canvassing a lot of people were reacting to the idea that they would have to pay for care at all, not realising that if it is residential care, which is almost always the case as dementia progresses, even if a partner or other career copes for a long time with support, they already have to pay and this would actually be a slight improvement on current arrangements. I do think this was an issue where the Press were actually a little unfair to the Tories, that reporting was in Labours favour....... . fullfact.org/health/what-dementia-tax/

Oops, sorry Hashi/Hester, thank God we don't have any of the user1234555667 posters on here or I'd be in a permanent state of confusion.

Scrolling down Tim Walker's Twitter, there are people speculating that Boris's potential disowning of Brexit could be connected to James Chapman...

Yes lala, before he went quiet, Chapman was intimating things about BJ.

Perhaps something is about to come out?
There's also the (unrelated) recent story about the Garden Bridge project being cancelled, which £46 million of now wasted money was ploughed into, and how the procurement may be a bit dodgy...

www.economist.com/news/britain/21726360-expensive-project-becomes-expensive-mistake-how-london-threw-46m-thames

Maybe he's still looking at the top job and is worried about the amount of traction ReesMogg now seems to be gaining?

Maybe he knows Brexit will go wrong, and doesn't want to be on the losing side?

Or maybe it's just an unsubstantiated incorrect rumour?

Who knows? Anything could be true with Johnson. He's shocked us before, when resigning from the leadership race.

Sorry my wording is confusing. People who have care in the home also have to pay if they have assets over £23250 but their home is not included in those assets. So the only people who get social care entirely free now are those with assets of less than £14k. (between 14k and £23250 the interest is used to contribute to the costs) My point though is that people perceived that the Tories dementia tax proposals were going to make them pay for care, when in fact many, if not most , already do. The press coverage reinforced that perception. I am not exactly weeping about it but the perception that the Press were against Labour is not entirely true, it helped May's Downfall too.

Has anyone tracked down Chapman to find out what has happened to him? He is on Spetse isn't he? It isn't very big and only half an hour from Athens.......

His wife got pissed off and took the phone from him lol

ron iirc the Tories didn't state the 100k limit originally, so it appeared that all saying were at risk of having to be used for care costs , i.e. no longer even the 23.5 k

I may have misremembered, but I thought there was a short but damaging delay before the 100k was plucked out of someone's underpants and released

< worries I may be fantasizing over GE campaigns >

I hope Chapman isn't found mysteriously hanging from a bridge with magic markings on his underwear
(for some reason, I keep remembering Robert Calvi's convenient death back in the 1980s)

It may indeed be that he has something to turn the screws on Bojo - hints from Chapman & others that there are some rather nasty scandals lurking.

However, maybe it's that promise Bojo made last June on LBC. Remember ?

"Boris Johnson will make TV apology if Brexit triggers recession
Former London mayor makes pledge to caller on LBC radio phone-in but says Britain has nothing to fear from leaving EU"

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/21/boris-johnson-will-make-tv-apology-if-brexit-triggers-recessionn_

Bigchoc Since we had recently gone through all this it was the 100k limit that obviously first caught my attention. This contemporary report does not mention it as a later development www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/21/theresa-may-under-pressure-over-dementia-tax-social-care-shakeup?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The actual drawback was that the homes of people cared for at home were being brought into the assets to be plundered but I think most people shared your perception that the proposals were worse than they actually were.

Gone through all this being the dawning realisation, on advice from a social worker, that we were basically best going it alone on this since as the assets were more than £23250 we would be entirely self funding and the money would get swallowed up anyway anything we would arrange ourselves privately would be much better than anything arranged by the state...... The exception to that was the occupational therapists who were brilliant

I think the cap you are thinking of was that she subsequently said there would be an absolute cap on the amount that had to be spent on self funding an individual's care though she did not say what that would be ie they could set that at a level, say a million, that only applied to the very richest

I remember hearing the 100k floor slightly later, but that may have been because the manifesto was leaked in advance.

Those who were expected to lose out are those elderly who have care in the home for many years. That's a substantial % of those lucky enough not to develop dementia, or not until much later.
Many people have a couple of years care at home. Some have far more.

My mum had several years, because she refused to go to a care home
She had few savings, so I topped up her care with extra paid visits and I remember noticing for one bank holiday that the bill was £70 per hr that day Obviously much less normally and I bet the carer didn't receive much of that.

I also remember a previous NDN who retained all her faculties, so remained in her home until her death. She received daily visits for personal care for nearly 20 years as she became increasingly physically disabled.