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Brexit

Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/08/2017 09:43

Nigel Farage @ Nigel_Farage
Cannot believe we're seeing Nazi salutes in 21st century America.

Yeah, that's what we said on 16th June 2016, when some dickhead stood in front of a poster.

The thing is, what Farage says with faux surprise isn't unusual or isolated to him. It's widespread. It's perhaps the norm rather than the exception in many circles.

It's represents a total lack of self awareness. It represents the disconnect that what comes out of your mouth tends to have an effect on the people around you, whether intentioned that way or not when you talk about 'others' or 'not belonging'.

It's a direct effect of nationalism.

Patriotism seems to be something that people have totally lost the plot with and don't understand. It's used as a defence for nationalism. It is the last defence of the scoundrel. Patriotism and being pro-EU or not being a racist dick are not mutually exclusive, though you'd be forgiven for thinking differently these days.

I think a lot of people will sit and go, "Look at America, that is awful. I'm glad we are not like that".

Except we are far more than we realise. Grenfell says much about that.

There's an phrase and Southern Wolves and Northern Wolves when it comes to racism in America. The UK is like the Northern Wolf. Sly and silver tongued to justify and hide racism because 'Look they are worse than us. We are the good guys'.

A bit like saying, you talked to an EU citizen and they were just as racist as me, so Brexit is ok.

It's the twisted desperation to justify the othering rather than take responsibility for enabling and emboldening racism. Then dressing it up as some legitimate political cause which actually you have zero understanding or comprehension of the consequences of.

Brexit has some deep roots in Nazi type fantasies. You can not separate the idea that Britain is superior and Brits are better than Europeans from too much Brexit logic. The Empire was not a pretty thing for much of the world. It's worrying.

Not to mention we've had a right wing attack on a group of people outside a mosque in this fashion before the US had that attack yesterday.

Let's not think that because we haven't had blokes with tiki torches providing a photographic opportunity and theatre for the TV producer that we are somehow 'better'. Or not as bad as America.

The only real difference between them and us is the brash openness about it and the fact they have a bunch of guns.

This was predictable. Indeed I expected and I expect more. There will be more and it will get far, far worse in the US. Yesterday was just the start. Trump wants it. He will fuel it. He will capitalise from it. Yes your mate Donald loves a bit of bigotry, Nig.

There no guarantees it won't happen here for various reasons. It just is characterised in a slightly different way because we are British and don't really do brash in anything as it's not our way.

It's too easy for Farage. Or Johnson. Or May. Or whoever to just walk away and innocently say they are shocked and bear no responsibility because they don't wave Nazi flags about.

You don't have to do that, to share the same values or believe the same thing. Salutes and flags are just branding. A repackaged version for the 21st century is even more dangerous.

We won't forget who Farage hangs out with or courts for publicity and attention. Farage only says and does what he thinks he can get away with. That's part of the ugly truth.

We still have not even started to confront the relationship between racism and Brexit. Indeed, much seems to be happening to suggest that after blaming EU, that there are a Brexit opportunities for scapegoating opening up.

For me yesterday was depressing not because it happened, but because we saw it coming and because our country is in denial about being the same.

Farage is the very personification of it.

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Arborea · 17/08/2017 06:57

I am twofingers, so thanks for letting me know about that one!

missmoon · 17/08/2017 06:58

I think this is his new Twitter account: @jameschapers (without the double p). It seems his old account was hacked, but who knows.

woman12345 · 17/08/2017 07:00

Cheers missmoon and lovely cats Calleach1. My cats have always been in the resistance too. Smile

TheNumberfaker · 17/08/2017 07:01

I reckon he's been taken down...

Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter
HashiAsLarry · 17/08/2017 07:04

just the Im-'m-not-racist-but brigade

woman12345 · 17/08/2017 07:05

There's a popular new teenage fiction genre in which novels are formatted in texts accessed on phones.

This reads like a twitter version:

@FeeBattal 4h
Mysteriously disappeared... James Chapman @jameschappers no longer exists

@jameschapers 6h6 hours ago
Don't believe in conspiracy theories but 3 times have been locked out of @Twitter account. Never happened before #nicetryheywood #byebye

@jameschapers
Replying to @FeeBattal
Twitter knows something we don't
7:23 pm - 16 Aug 2017

HashiAsLarry · 17/08/2017 07:09

Just caught a bit of BBC news re immigration.
They {not the BBC, presumably DexEU) believed we don't need physcial borders but we can control immigration through access to work and benefits. So like we've always been able to but have been too lazy to then? FFS

littlebird7 · 17/08/2017 07:14

You can not currently control immigration through work and benefits Hashi, that is the whole point. The UK is forced to accept everyone from the EU regardless.
If work permits are distributed to areas of industry where extra staff ( from EU and other parts of the world ) are required, and benefits regulated you would control immigration. Simple idea doesn't explain how it will control
black market..

HashiAsLarry · 17/08/2017 07:20

Not true littlebird, the UK aren't forced to accept everyone for a start. Then there's no requirement for them to be allowed to stay without some form of support and benefits has always been our own solvable mess - as pointed out by EU on many occasions.

missmoon · 17/08/2017 07:31

If work permits are distributed to areas of industry where extra staff ( from EU and other parts of the world ) are required, and benefits regulated you would control immigration.

A sort of Soviet style Gosplan economy then, where the government in its wisdom decides how many workers each industry is allowed. Industry lobbyists will no doubt have a field day, and just think of the potential for kickbacks and corruption. You might be able to do this for agriculture with temporary permits, but it would be a disaster if you tried to implement it across the board.

Peregrina · 17/08/2017 07:32

as pointed out by EU on many occasions.
As practised by other EU countries.

Peregrina · 17/08/2017 07:41

If work permits are distributed to areas of industry where extra staff ( from EU and other parts of the world ) are required, and benefits regulated you would control immigration.

Not very Tory, is it?

HashiAsLarry · 17/08/2017 07:45

Not very Tory, is it?
Ah, but there'll only be 10k permits, and they'll more than sort the NHS and the constuction industry in London alone. Oh no, wait. Nope.

HashiAsLarry · 17/08/2017 07:57

@JolyonMaugham

Free movement. Just with more red tape, more costs for business, more lobbying and the semblance of control
times
Will control be exercised? We have substantially full employment. And Government already has and ignores a migration target.
How will control be enforced if workers have the right to visit? But it will boost the shadow labour economy: exploitation and tax evasion.

I'm not sure will control be exercised is the question. How will control be exercised given we've decided numerous times its not cost efficient to do so? What systems are they setting up now so it's ready in time? And most importantly, why didn't we just bloody well do this before?

HashiAsLarry · 17/08/2017 08:04

The times is behind a paywall, of course.
Here's the two clips attached to the first tweet

Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter
Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter
woman12345 · 17/08/2017 08:06

The site's up: peoplesmarch4eu.org

Motheroffourdragons · 17/08/2017 08:50

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

twofingerstoEverything · 17/08/2017 09:03

What has been the point then?
And how much has it cost, both in economic and social terms?

missmoon · 17/08/2017 09:03

Thanks woman, definitely planning to go this time. Do you think it will be ok to bring children along?

twofingerstoEverything · 17/08/2017 09:08

The last march was full of children. There was no trouble or bad feeling at all, unless you count four twats with an anti-immigrant banner standing outside a pub near Downing Street. If the children are small and can't manage the full march, there's always a secondary assembly point. Last time, this was at Trafalgar Square.

See you there!

lalalonglegs · 17/08/2017 09:11

I'm not convinced by that new JC twitter account Hmm.

Motheroffourdragons · 17/08/2017 09:12

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

missmoon · 17/08/2017 09:14

twofingers thanks, see you there!

BiglyBadgers · 17/08/2017 09:18

So, free movement is staying then....I am so confused by the government. Can't we just save some money by taking all the existing agreements with the EU and printing them out of different coloured paper or something. Confused

Motheroffourdragons · 17/08/2017 09:20

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.