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Brexit

The Brexit Arms. All welcome.

999 replies

surferjet · 30/07/2017 21:06

So.....how are we all?
Wine

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13
Valentine2 · 10/08/2017 14:32

The report on contaminated eggs shows it was a one off mistake and we were alaramed immediately.
Chlorine chicken will be here to stay forever more. I am amazed how You cannot see this big of a difference? Confused

howabout · 10/08/2017 15:17

You keep telling yourself that Valentine. At least the US are up front with their chicken practices. As with all things EU the fraud, criminality and cover up are worse than the "mistake" Hmm. As yet no-one seems to have any idea how widespread it is or how long it has been going on.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40878381

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40889414

Bought my eggs yesterday from hens so free range you have to watch you don't run them over on the farm road. Not everyone has that luxury but it would be good to have any sort of confidence that the rules which exist on paper are actually being enforced.

time4chocolate · 10/08/2017 15:25

I didn't get the hoohah a few months ago when this came up and I'm still not getting it now - no one is going to force feed chlorinated chicken to us are they? Surely we will have a choice in what we buy, a bit like free range over battery eggs, organic vs non organic that sort of thing. Will they not be truthful with their labelling maybe?

Genuinely asking if am I missing something?

Valentine2 · 10/08/2017 15:35

Yes.it will be chlorine washed and hormone fed meat. And no You won't be able to give choice to everyone because it will be the only option by then for so many. Even now, organic is expensive.

As with all things EU the fraud, criminality and cover up are worse than the "mistake"

You have many examples mistakes being kept hnder wraps happening. Can you please post them?

Valentine2 · 10/08/2017 15:38

I think there is far less regulation on food and pharma products in US overall and I don't see why they will bother to inform you about this before selling because it is obvious no one will buy then. There have been multiple examples posted on the Westministenders thread. Including formula milk containing EU banned products etc.
With the sneaking up of prices, I don't think majority public will have much choice left.

howabout · 10/08/2017 15:45

Re cover ups see my earlier post on eggs, fishing, EU expenses, human trafficking for starters - see above. Pesticides in wine production in France, GM production for export in Germany - in fact the whole German pharma industry, diesel emissions. I could go on and on and on and on but I suspect the brick wall response would be unwavering .......

GhostofFrankGrimes · 10/08/2017 17:35

I don't recall leavers raising concerns about these issues during the referendum but they'll jump all over anything negative about the EU now in the quest for confirmation bias. Perhaps our patriots need reminding of the BSE scandal...

Once again nobody has ever suggested the EU is perfect.

Valentine2 · 10/08/2017 20:48

hired.com/blog/highlights/brexit-impact-on-uk-talent-pool/

The frustration in tech industry of UK is sky high.

Carolinesbeanies · 10/08/2017 23:44

"So you are trying to say that a lot of nations supported Afghanistan and not many did it for Iraq so Iraq was illegal and Afghanistan wasn't? "

Im not 'trying' to say anything, Im correcting your misinformation by providing the factual position.

The war in Afghanistan was supported by international law. It was supported by the UN, NATO, who then formed ISAF. The Afghanistan war was legal on the international stage.
The war in Iraq on the otherhand, wasnt. Its well documented . The UN refused to pass any resolutions to support it.
Nor have I said anything was "fine", or that Ive "supported" anything.

Ive responded to your very direct question, "would an EU Defence force have avoided these wars?" The answer remains, absolutely not. Ive then explained why.

Its neither new or original on here, for a remainer to take an answer from one question, then twist it to presume an answer to something totally (and offensively) different.

You do seem to easily conflate, refugees, asylum seekers, migrants and FOM, Valentine. What aspect of all of this are you wishing to lay at leave voters doors? Or is it simply easier to blame both wars, the rise of ISIS, and the current migrant crisis on racist ignorant leave voters?

If so, Ive further news for you. Arch remainer Tony Blair, his remain supporting MPs, and the EU, should be answering your questions for you.

Carolinesbeanies · 11/08/2017 00:26

The rest of your post Valentine, is simply full of inaccuracies and misinformation. Im curious, where are you getting your information from? (If its the Westminster threads then that would explain things)
Which 'large numbers of business' are leaving'?

The UK has been a services driven economy for a long time, currently accounting for approx 80% of GDP. Financial services account for approx 10% of GDP.

7% of the UK workforce are EU nationals of which the vast majority work in food manufacture, warehousing, transport or accomodation services.
researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8069

Valentine, Im happy to enter into constructive discussion with you, but you must check your own assertions, before claiming them as factually correct. Or.....simply stick to the Westminster thread where theres plenty of posters who will agree with you, whether youre factually correct or not.

The Brexit Arms.  All welcome.
Valentine2 · 11/08/2017 00:28

Fair enough caroline. Fair point about me getting angry on Afghan war point you raised. You were right.
However, the later stuff you have written is not right. You sort of got carried away in your anger, didn't you?
I am not conflating all of these. ANd anyone who has seen my history knows I hate Blair with a passion. I don't think you probably understood my question or may be I didn't write it clearly. When I asked if EU defense army could have prevented it or not, I meant it to be in the post Iraq/Afghanistan scenario (let's write those two together because I truly believe both were illegal and both destroyed the region said involved for decades to come, never mind the countries involved in it. It is a whole set of discussions in itself). So let's say if there was a situation now, like Bush and Blair had in their hands around 2001, would an eU army prevent scum like Blair to dive head long in it without involving EU in it? I feel that bit is where we should focus a bit more right now. It may not be an important issue to you, but I can see why it is such a big issue for EU countries (linked to the affected regions, physically possible to reach EU than UK /USA of course).
What other concerns do you have about this EU army thing? Can anyone share something that shows the clear differences between this supposed army is going to work in contrast to NATO?

Valentine2 · 11/08/2017 00:39

The rest of your post Valentine, is simply full of inaccuracies and misinformation
How about we pick them one by one. I know the UK being a service industry and posted this pic and link on another Brexit thread:
www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/secondestimateofgdp/quarter1jantomar2017#what-are-the-main-contributors-from-the-output-income-and-expenditure-approaches-to-gdp-growth

Let's write it all one point a time and we can continue this talk?

The Brexit Arms.  All welcome.
Carolinesbeanies · 11/08/2017 01:01

"Genuinely asking if am I missing something?"

Nope , youre not missing anything time4chocolate. Its just another anti-brexit story the rabid remain camp and media have leapt on. The fact the US have higher health standards regards food safety than the EU does, is conveniently ignored. We can have salmonella filled chickens on our shelves, BSE, ecoli etc etc and its far more preferable to some evil produce from the land of satanic Trump.

Considering the UK population has been mass medicated with fluoride for decades , its clearly a storm in a political anti-brexit egg cup.

Carolinesbeanies · 11/08/2017 01:05

"I don't recall leavers raising concerns about these issues during the referendum" Hmm Good grief. Has to be quote of the day.

RandomlyGenerated · 11/08/2017 01:33

The EU and US approaches to food safety standards are radically different - the EU follows a farm to fork precautionary principle whereas the US concentrates on the end product - hence chlorinated washes to remove bacteria which haven't been controlled at earlier points during the production process.

If you want to know the best way to produce bacteria free chicken then you need to look at what the Danes have done.

Carolinesbeanies · 11/08/2017 01:58

"would an eU army prevent scum like Blair to dive head long in it without involving EU in it?"

The answer still remains absolutely not. The EU Defence force (it upsets people to call is an 'Army' so in deference, Ill use the terminology the EU are using) is being raised as an additional military force, to embark on operations specified by Brussels, not a replacement for national forces.
Though of course to maintain both, means a nation state will have to raise its defence spending to meet the additional 40billion the EU are spending on this, or they transfer some of its current defence spending to the EU.

As I pointed out earlier, we will know more about their proposed operations in 3 months time.

But in short, any nation state can and will always be able to take steps to 'defend' itself. That was the fundamental ethos behind the Bush/Blair position, and its an ethos even the EU wont meddle in.

There are hundreds of reasons why an EU Defence force is a really bad idea, but the one that should concern you the most, is that the EU have a very nasty habit of disregarding their own treaties and laws.
Take the bail-out situation for example. Article 125 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, is the no bail-out clause. None. No bail out of any member state. Ever. Yet off they go, bailing out. Then apply that utter disregard, to military action from a combined military force commanded from Brussels.

Blair at least had to seek approval from parliament before taking us to war, (though as we now know he lied), but the EU council have form when it comes to telling you one thing, backing it up with legal, expensive, time consuming legislation, then simply ignoring it at will.
The treaties arent worth the paper theyre written on, and neither will the assurances they give regards an EU Defence force.

(I wont go into the other 134 reasons I have, its getting late and its time for Wine)

Carolinesbeanies · 11/08/2017 01:59

Cheers howabout Wine

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/08/2017 07:22

I don't recall leavers raising concerns about these issues during the referendum" hmm Good grief. Has to be quote of the day.

I was referring to food standards, care to enlighten us as how you expect food standards to be higher after Brexit? The referendum was based on a set of soundbites with zero substance.

howabout · 11/08/2017 08:32

Latest announcements on UK leadership in animal welfare standards since you ask.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40895049

mummmy2017 · 11/08/2017 08:42

The referendum was based on a set of soundbites with zero substance.
I think this applies to both sides.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/08/2017 09:27

Latest announcements on UK leadership in animal welfare standards since you ask.

A great step, lets hope it is tightly applied and leads to prosecutions. However with Brexit I feel it will be one step forward, two steps back in welfare/environmental standards.

The referendum was based on a set of soundbites with zero substance.
I think this applies to both sides.

Various academics and experts (I know, I know) pointed out the dangers of leaving the EU. It was denounced as project fear.

Feel like I'm going round in circles with this shit.

mummmy2017 · 11/08/2017 09:59

In all that was said on both sides there has to have been some truth from both sides, but yes to the circles.
There will also academics who thing leaving is a good idea. does this mean their views hold less weight? could not some of the things happen that might hold a plus.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/08/2017 10:13

could not some of the things happen that might hold a plus.

I'd love to hear them and see examples of them happening. All I've seen is a drop in the £, mass uncertainty and businesses looking to set up in the eurozone. I am struggling to see how higher grocery bills and an uncertain future (5, 10, 20 years?) benefits me or my family.

mummmy2017 · 11/08/2017 10:22

What if an upside is the Uk develop new technology and our children are the ones who benefit from being world leaders in this area.
The schools by us are teaching all children programming, and it seems this is an area where there can only be more growth, as we find computers are more and more important, and where you actually are physical based becomes less important.

CardinalSin · 11/08/2017 10:26

Love the "what if", that's just hilarious!