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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Negotiations Continue - The DUP ones

994 replies

RedToothBrush · 20/06/2017 17:57

Tomorrow is the Queen’s Speech. In honour of that the start of this thread is written in its honour:

….
Immigration is bad. Except for that good immigration.
….
….
Brexit means Brexit
….
Pilot scheme.
....
….
….
Money for –the DUP-- NI
….
….
Brexit means Brexit
….
The Internet is Bad. Newspapers are good.
….
Brexit means Brexit.
….
….
….
Britain wave your flag.
….
….
….

(The Queen’s turns over the page to read the back of the A4 sheet, only to find it blank)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
woman12345 · 21/06/2017 15:28

@johnprescott
So it seems the #QueensSpeech debate has turned in to Corbyn's first PMQs!
He'll be doing it for real in a few months time. 😉

So far:
commitment to HRA
Commitment to single market
Protect rights of EU nationals
Reverse public spending cuts which are causing tragedies like Grenfell Towers
No deal is not better than any deal
Repeal Trade Union Act

Sounds OK so far.

PattyPenguin · 21/06/2017 15:33

Another hm...

From the BBC's live feed on JC's reaction to QS
"Asked what Labour’s position is on the single market and the customs union, Corbyn says it has been absolutely clear; he wants tariff-free access to the single market."

"Tariff-free access to the single market" is not the same as membership of the single market or of a customs union.

ClashCityRocker · 21/06/2017 15:41

It's certainly shaping up to look like Labour will be going for the EFTA route though?

I veer between being endless fascinated and a sense of impending doom...

Mrsmartell08 · 21/06/2017 15:45

Air lifts had occurred to me too woman

LurkingHusband · 21/06/2017 15:48

"Asked what Labour’s position is on the single market and the customs union, Corbyn says it has been absolutely clear; he wants tariff-free access to the single market."

The real question, is what if tariff-free access is not possible, any alternative being demonstrably damaging to UK trade ?

that being the case, we are then in Brexit Rollback territory.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2017 15:50

"Tariff-free access to the single market" is not on offer for Brexit
It could be worked out as part of a trade deal after Brexit, but such deals take 5-10 years to negotiate.

Also, I wish politicians would talk less about tariffs and more about non-tariff barriers, which are the greater problem - e.g. quotas, delays at customs - and are what take up most of the negotiating time.

The "cliff edge" - that Uk business is so concerned about - would happen the day after Brexit
I wonder if JC is just waffling, or if he is talking about the kind of post-Brexit deal Labour will aim for, after the Brexit crash

citroenpresse · 21/06/2017 16:00

Was all that ink-drying-time-on-vellum just rubbish re QS not matching statement? normal rules re immigration mmm 43 years of working with Europe to unravel with worker rights and protection at the forefront always.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/06/2017 16:02

Lurking I'm hopeful that the combo of "we defo want tariff-free access to the SM, totes not reneging on Brexit and the will of the people" with "no deal is not better than a good deal" means that Labour are gearing up for being seen to try to negotiate the impossible and then truthfully being able to say "we've given it our best shot but this is shit and no deal wouldn't be better so let's stay in."

But then I remember Corbyn's stance and half-hearted Remain campainging and conclude that I'm probably chasing that elusive unicorn.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 21/06/2017 16:09

Asked what Labour’s position is on the single market and the customs union, Corbyn says it has been absolutely clear; he wants tariff-free access to the single market

EFTA then?

LurkingHusband · 21/06/2017 16:12

At what point can we dump this "will of the people" shit ?

May I suggest 5 years ? After all, we (usually) get to change the "will of the people" every 5 years about everything else ? Since TM was desperate to get fox-hunting revived (after 13 years) despite "the will of the people" it seems fair ?

And if that is the convention, when are we due to revisit electoral reform ?

LurkingHusband · 21/06/2017 16:12

Just received a YouGov survey .... about elections ...

ElenaGreco123 · 21/06/2017 16:13

Sorry to say but I feel that JC is always waffling about the EU.

Patty You are right I was silly thinking the DUP might be sensible compared to the Tories. Why are people so interested in random strangers' sex lives?!

DUP Revealed To Have Urged Scottish Government Not To Let NI Gay Couples Upgrade Civil Partnerships There
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/dup-gay-marriage_uk_5949468ae4b07d3e35d884a3

LurkingHusband · 21/06/2017 16:13

and electoral reform Smile

citroenpresse · 21/06/2017 16:14

Labour Trident policy is prob not JC belief but he has gone with party line. Party relations post election results different now. Even from hopeless position they ran excellent campaign. Discipline and pulling together needed.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2017 16:14

Labour are trying to please the majority of both Remain and Leave by being so indefinite.
Why not ? They are the Official Opposition
Unless there is a GE in the next 2 years, they can stand aside and criticise while the Tories deliver a real Brexit abortion (most likely) or a unicorn (but ..... DD ?)

If an earlier GE happens, Labour may be more definite, but they did well with "avoid, avoid " last time.

If JC becomes PM, he will have to decide privately what he is aiming for.
However, he can always say that the Tories cocked up and have now run the clock down,
so he has to do something he wouldn't have done otherwise - which could be soft / hard / Remain, we don't know.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2017 16:16

I suspect JC doesn't give a damn about Remain / Leave.
So he will do whatever is most likely to damage the Tories and produce a Labour govt

Two Tory PMs have obviously put party before country
He is just being equally cynical

PattyPenguin · 21/06/2017 16:17

EFTA means the same competition rules as the EU, though.

www.efta.int/eea/policy-areas/goods/competition-aid-procurement-ipr/competition

Don't we think that's a no-no for the Corbynistas?

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2017 16:23

If any deal is possible, it will entail dropping red lines, let alone issues the parties haven't explicitly said are red lines

The EU would accept an EEA / EFTA deal, whether transition or as an end deal.
The only other alternatives are no deal or Remain

The Tories - and Labour need to decide which of those 3 options they dislike least

Mrsmartell08 · 21/06/2017 16:28

Absolutely LH

LurkingHusband · 21/06/2017 16:33

Apparently there's now a rumour doing the rounds that VAT is to be removed from bowler hats and orange sashes

Grin
Mrsmartell08 · 21/06/2017 16:35

🤣

RedToothBrush · 21/06/2017 16:47

That's a nice yellow dress the Queen changed into for the races after doing her speech...

Grin
Westminstenders: The Negotiations Continue - The DUP ones
OP posts:
ClashCityRocker · 21/06/2017 16:48

Can we have a referendum on will of the people and how long it lasts for?

LH totally agree with your earlier post... No matter what they do it's going to piss of two thirds of the electorate.

So, as they are in a lose-lose situation anyway, let's do the sensible thing and call the whole shit storm off.

Good point also on non-tarriff boundaries. I act for a lot of businesses who could possibly absorb or recharge the increased tariff. They would really struggle with the administration and cost associated with import/export.

I'm no customs expert but have studied it in theory - it isn't something you can do comfortably by a bit of Googling and pointing in the right direction. And at present, customs expertise is, whilst not exactly niche, is a lot more niche than say vat or direct tax expertise - so it's gonna cost.

Also hmrc are woefully unprepared (but what else is new) and are proceeding on the basis that we will be part of both a vat and customs union going forward. This may be usual incompetence, but bear in mind hmrc are already going through a fundamental change with MTD which will hugely increase their workload and business compliance costs...

And of course they haven't been geting rid off staff left right and centre, no not at all....

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2017 16:51

(Telegraph paywall ) A dressed-down Queen for a threadbare Queen’s Speech

Normally, the State Opening of Parliament is a dazzling festival of finery.
Not this one.

There were no horse-drawn carriages.
Empty spaces yawned on the peers’ back benches.
The Order of Procession was full of holes:
no Maltravers Herald Extraordinary, no Rouge Croix Pursuivant, no Gold Stick in Waiting.
.....
Traditionally at the State Opening, the Queen is a vision to which the TV cameras never do justice:
the Imperial State Crown, the 18ft Robe of the State, and a glittering galaxy of diamonds.
This time, she’d come in a blue overcoat. And instead of the crown, a blue floral hat. < EU hat ! >
......
The official explanation is that, as the election had been called so abruptly, the Palace decided it would be impossible to rehearse and perform the full ceremony so soon after Trooping the Colour.Hmm

In the circumstances, though, the air of perfunctoriness seemed somehow apt.
For the minority Government, a minimal State Opening.
A ceremonial going-through-the-motions, an ermine-clad shrug Grin
An anticlimax before it had even begun.
......
And if this State Opening was a damp squib, not to worry.
There’ll probably be another one soon enough Grin

While the House of Lords waited in musty silence, Black Rod strode off to fetch the MPs.
Republican Labour veteran Dennis Skinner coughed out his traditional heckle.
“Get your skates on,” he rasped. “First race is half past two!”

Well, at least some things never change.

The Queen’s Speech itself – written on Her Majesty’s behalf, as always, by her Government – was a masterpiece of padding.
Almost every new policy in the Tory manifesto seemed to have been binned.

The Prime Minister had been reduced to filling time with some hot air about “strengthening the social, economic and cultural bonds” between the four nations of the UK.
If she ends up giving Northern Ireland as much cash as the DUP is supposedly holding out for, it’ll be interesting to see how that goes.