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Brexit

Anybody else wish the EU referendum had never happened? Or Remain had won?

189 replies

fakenamefornow · 09/06/2017 20:19

I feel like the country is in a fucking mess already and we haven't even started to leave yet. So much uncertainty.

I voted Remain though, I know this must be colouring my view. Any Leave voters wishing it had never happened or even that Remain had won? Are you still happy with how it's going? I'm fed up with it all but am really trying to see the other side. Not looking forward to yet another election which I fear may be just around the corner.

OP posts:
RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 15/06/2017 07:56

Oh good that's pretty much what i was saying

I just said it badly Grin

CrossWordSalad · 15/06/2017 08:04

I stopped reading the Politics means Politics link at

This is the case for the poll carried out by YouGov which seems to suggest that a large majority of people, a stunning 68%, now support Brexit. It would seem that most Remainers have had a change of heart, as Kenneth Clarke put it colourfully, seen the light on the road to Damascus and have now become re-leavers

Not quite. Prima facie, it is hard to believe that such a big shift would have occurred on such a short space of time

Leave and Remain are choices that are closely tied to personal identity and attitudes such as openness and being comfortable with ethnic and viewpoint diversity (Remain) or support of the death penalty and preferring more ethnic and moral homogeneity (Leave)

If someone can't understand that how a person chose to vote in the referendum, and how someone now thinks we should proceed with the decision made by the referendum, are two completely different things, I can't imagine they are going to have much sensible to say.

In any case, whilst I agree that resignation is not the same as wanting Brexit to happen, the main message of the Ashcroft poll is that there are a sizeable % of Labour voters who positively want Brexit. Another sizeable % voted Labour accepting that Brexit will happen and resigned/accepting of this. So to try to interpret all Labour votes as anti-Brexit votes is a nonsense (which we knew anyway because the Labour manifesto has a commitment to Brexit).

CrossWordSalad · 15/06/2017 08:10

X post rufus

I'm not sure that it is saying what you are saying. It is trying to imply that to now accept Brexit requires a retrospective change of all your values so that you would have voted Leave in the first place. Which is clearly wrong. There is a huge difference between wanting Brexit, and not wanting it but being resigned to it happening.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 15/06/2017 08:12

So to try to interpret all Labour votes as anti-Brexit votes is a nonsense (which we knew anyway because the Labour manifesto has a commitment to Brexit)

Again, and I obviously accept that i miss posts all the time Smile , i dont think anyone on this thread thinks that

I certainly don't

I think someone could argue that its a vote for a different type of brexit than mays ...i wouldnt. But it was in the manifesto

Having said that i did say to ds1 that i felt that manifestos were more a clue to the ideology of a party than a promise to actually do it

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 15/06/2017 08:15

Not the whole article cross Smile

Just the bit about it depending on how the question is asked

A good poll would be would you vote yes or no in a rerun...or with a time machine

Anyway lord ashcroft didn't personally ask me so it obviously doesn't count Grin

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 15/06/2017 08:15

There is a huge difference between wanting Brexit, and not wanting it but being resigned to it happening.

Agree

SapphireStrange · 15/06/2017 12:36

Cross, can we not let go of this 'us against the establishment and the middle classes' shit now?

Who do you think Theresa May is?

Who do you think Rupert Murdoch is?

Paul Dacre?

Boris Johnson?

CrossWordSalad · 15/06/2017 12:45

Sapphire I have long since gone past feeling the need to grovelling explain that I don't believe things which I haven't said I believe. If you want to interpret what I am saying as how you present it, that is your problem. I don't feel the need to defend myself when accused of things I haven't said, or implied.

SapphireStrange · 15/06/2017 12:58

Cross, you said 'Isn't it strange how your version of "democracy" looks like it might deliver what the middle classes and the establishment want'?

'things I haven't said' [hmm

SapphireStrange · 15/06/2017 12:58

Oops. That was meant to be a sceptical face.

CrossWordSalad · 15/06/2017 13:22

Yes, because I think some people are happy to use the greater power of the establishment and the middle classes to overturn a democratic decision. That doesn't mean I think it is "us against the establishment and the middle classes".

There are all sorts of people on all sides of the Brexit debate. That is not what I was talking about. I was talking about people using undemocratic means to get what they want, and the fact that the people who are able to use these means tend to be establishment and middle class. Hence why we have democracy, so that everyone gets a say.

citroenpresse · 15/06/2017 14:31

Were Johnson, Gove and Stuart not representatives from 'the establishment and the middle classes' who were able to use their influence to persuade the Brexit debate? And perhaps influence those who a)trust governments and b)were insufficiently knowledgeable about Europe to know the persuasive message on the bus was was an outright lie? Wouldn't it have been more democratic to ask people if they even wanted a referendum first (given that it was purely a response to Tory in-flghting). If May implements, with the help of the DUP, policies that leave the single market, I don't think that has any democratic basis. British people should have another chance to vote.

SarfEast1cated · 15/06/2017 18:50

" citroenpresse Wed 14-Jun-17 13:41:49

itinerary Given that we ARE leaving the EU, does the sheer incompetence of the current negotiation team (half sacked) not worry you just a little bit? That the current white paper (leaving the Single Market) that the Government proposed looks nothing like what we will eventually end up with? That A50 was triggered and utter chaos has ensued? Are you 100% certain that 'the will of the people' is still 'the will of the people' when the government lied?"

Citroen puts it perfectly. My belief in politicians died with that bluddy Brexit bus. If everyone had voted on the cold hard facts of Brexit I would have respected the vote, but I think that some people voted based on lies they had been told by the media and that must be wrong.

NameChanger22 · 05/07/2017 12:18

I voted remain. I campaigned for remain. I'm still really upset about it but some days I try to ignore that its happening. I don't want to worry and be angry every single day.

I'm mostly upset with the Tories, then UKIP, then the leave voters, then Labour for not campaigning more to remain and going along with it all.

I can't see a good future for this country,

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