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Brexit

Anybody else wish the EU referendum had never happened? Or Remain had won?

189 replies

fakenamefornow · 09/06/2017 20:19

I feel like the country is in a fucking mess already and we haven't even started to leave yet. So much uncertainty.

I voted Remain though, I know this must be colouring my view. Any Leave voters wishing it had never happened or even that Remain had won? Are you still happy with how it's going? I'm fed up with it all but am really trying to see the other side. Not looking forward to yet another election which I fear may be just around the corner.

OP posts:
TestTubeTeen · 12/06/2017 17:53

I agree - many people I spoke to were convinced that within two years of triggering article 50 (i.e on the day we actually leave) the money on the bus (and more) would pour into our services.

No-one I spoke to had contemplated losing our most lucrative trade and us not HAVING the money. Or had taken into account half the things that the EU invests in here - research grants, regeneration, lots of environment initiatives, universities etc. No awareness at all.

The list of concerns and expectations given in polls shows how (some) people were thinking. That we would quickly return to clutching our new blue passports, buying sweets in 4oz bags, in shillings and half crowns, and sorting out young people with six of the best. one report of this poll

Theworldisfullofidiots · 12/06/2017 18:07

Just spoke to the man who runs my corner shop. They are selling all their takeaways because they can't staff them......

CloudNinetyNine · 12/06/2017 19:56

I felt both sides told numerous lies
What lies did the Remain campaign say?

And I really was surprised people actually took the NHS bus statement as a fact!

CrossWordSalad · 12/06/2017 20:04

What lies did the Remain campaign say?

Lol

CrossWordSalad · 12/06/2017 20:06

Remain lie:
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/744807/George-Osborne-Remain-campaign-Marr

CrossWordSalad · 12/06/2017 20:12

Remain lie
uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-university-of-cambridge-treasury-forecasts-little-basis-in-reality-project-fear-2017-1?r=UK&IR=T

and so on. Economic crash on leave result, wait, no, of course it hasn't happened yet, it will happen when we trigger Article 50, oh...

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince · 12/06/2017 20:13

I'm exhausted and despairing of it all. It's like some sort of surreal nightmare. I'm just sick of instsability and constant chaos.

The fact that it had plunged this country into this divisive never ending nightmare should say it all. It should never have been voted on.

But the real level of my hatred goes to the grumpy old Eurosceptic Tories. Old, belligerent moaney men deciding the future of young people. It's fucking disgusting.

It's like some sort of joke country. 3 votes in the same smount of years. Talk about unstable, when is it going to end?

TestTubeTeen · 12/06/2017 20:21

Eh?

Brexit hasn't happened yet! We are still trading within the single market. The 'doom' was signalled by the fall in the pound, symptoms crop up every day, today it is applications from EU nurses down from 1300 to...94 ( or something similar) against a shortage of nurses of 30,000.

Did people think all the money would be sucked down a giant drain before breakfast on June 25th and anything else proves Odborne a liar?

The onset of doom is a slow burn. We won't know until after we have left.

Like it or not, the country is propped up on the financial services in the City. And people are leaving,

However, I am quite sure Osborne is a frequent liar Grin

TheElementsSong · 12/06/2017 20:35

I simply can't believe anybody who voted Leave could regret anything that's happened in the past year.

There have been so many posts about Brexit on MN in the past year: at every development/every piece of news (let's call these [it]), Leavers have said that they expected and predicted [it], that [it] isn't that bad and in fact is good because xyz, that [it] is exaggeration or lies, that [it] would have happened anyway, or if all else fails that [it] is the fault of somebody else, etc etc.

Ergo, there can be nothing to regret, only things to look forward to. Everything in Brexit Britain is either going to turn out absolutely solid-gold perfection, and if it doesn't that will be because of [list of Enemies of the People, Traitors, Saboteurs].

CrossWordSalad · 12/06/2017 20:43

There you go OP. No need to read any more posts from leave voters as Elements has spoken for us all.

PinkPeppers · 12/06/2017 21:21

Cross
What are those good things that have happened since the referendum?
Serioulsy, can you tell me what the positives since we voted Brexit and triggered Art 50?

Atm, wo going into predictions I have seen

  • less nurses applying to work in the NHS which means a hell of LOT of shortage of nurses very soon
  • pound have dived down so prices have increased (by about 10~20% on my own shopping, how is yours?)
  • plenty of companies have said they are leaving the UK to settled in the EU somewhere. Some have already moved, some have stopped new projects (airbus) and others have planned move (airbus again which put 10 000 jobs at risk)
  • manufacturing output has gone down
  • immigration has gone down because BRITS ARE LEAVING THE COUNTRY (more have left this country than ever before....)

So I would love to know what has happened so far that is or is going to make things better for the uk as a whole. Atm I can't see it :(

CrossWordSalad · 13/06/2017 10:34

The positive effects of leaving the EU haven't happened because we haven't left yet, but the disasters predicted to occur on a vote to leave or on triggering A50 did not occur.

Peregrina · 13/06/2017 11:05

So the £ losing value is a positive, is it? Prices increasing in the shops?
Firms planning to relocate staff?

You could at least tell us what you expect the benefits to be.

PinkPeppers · 13/06/2017 11:09

That means that none of the NEGATIVE effects of leaving the EU have happened yet either then.....

As a guess though, seeing that we can already see negative effects from leaving BEFORE we have actually left, I would guess that these negative effects will be plenty. Don't you think??

CrossWordSalad · 13/06/2017 11:17

You could at least tell us what you expect the benefits to be

Not being part of the EU, being able to make our own laws and policies, ending of freedom of movement.

That means that none of the NEGATIVE effects of leaving the EU have happened yet either then.....

Plenty of remainers specifically made claims for economic collapse on a leave vote, or on triggering A50. This have both now happened. No economic collapse, therefore those predictions were wrong.

histinyhandsarefrozen · 13/06/2017 11:31

Half the ministers for exiting the EU have been sacked, just days before negotiations start.

This is going well. Hmm

CrossWordSalad · 13/06/2017 11:36

Let's all hope it goes really badly, that will teach us all Hmm

histinyhandsarefrozen · 13/06/2017 11:37

Yeah, because saying it's going badly is exactly the same as wanting it to go badly.
Hmm

PinkPeppers · 13/06/2017 11:37

As far as I am concerned, having the 3rd lowest GPD in europe (so that includes greece and eastern countries) is actually a quite good sign of economic collapse tbh. Esp when the year before we were swimming right at the top.

AND we haven't even left yet....
AND Art 50 has been triggered just a few months ago.

PinkPeppers · 13/06/2017 11:41

Saying or predicting it will go badly is NOT the same than hoping it will.

I hope very dearly that the UK will find a way to sort this mess out and that no one will be so badly affected by it.
I just don't believe this will be the case IF we go for a hard brexit and the cliff edge option.
Im also not sure of how long it will take for the economy to recover and create again all the jobs we are loosing now because of the uncertainty (see my comment about Airbus and the loss of 10k jobs for example).

But I can promise you what I am not hoping for is to make my own life (and my dcs and anyone else for that matter) harder than it already is.

mylaptopismylapdog · 13/06/2017 11:42

Yes think the move was generally not thought through at all. Think the state of things one year on illustrates this graphically!

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 13/06/2017 11:49

A generation is 25 years and there is no guarantee that we will be better off - none at all. (In fact everything indicates otherwise). That's the rest of my working life and my retirement. It's the beginning of my children's working lives.

This

CrossWordSalad · 13/06/2017 11:51

Saying or predicting it will go badly is NOT the same than hoping it will

Fair enough

TheDogsMother · 13/06/2017 11:51

Yes everyday and we have now shot ourself in both feet.

For those who wished to reduce immigration from Europe, free movement will have to stay if we want any kind of trade agreement with the EU. For those who wanted to free us from the endless rules and regulations handed down by the EU we are likely to have to keep them if we want to trade with Europe. If we go down the Customs Union route we aren't even free to forge new trade relationships with other parts of the world. So essentially all the disavantages and none of the advantages of being in the EU. Then add to this the potential loss to EU countries of things such as London Clearing services (and I'm sure there are more that the other countries are waiting to pick off) it seems a bit disatrous to me. I still find it horrendous the nonsense that was flying around in order to win votes when it just felt like some of the politicians were on a mad ego trip.

RedToothBrush · 13/06/2017 12:03

Remain didn't lie. But they also didn't 'tell the truth' either in the sense they only made comments about what could happen in a way that appeared totally unrealistic and over the top.

The fact that these claims appeared unbelievable to those who were Eurosceptic did nothing to endear them to voting to remain.

Remain was also up against a feeling of hopelessness. Many people who voted to leave did so with the attitude that they had nothing to loose and things couldn't get any worse than they already were anyway. It was a way to kick the current government.

What Remain should have done is been really positive about the merits of the EU and explain what the EU contributes to British society and how it is an asset.

The problem is that Cameron had spent years doing exactly the opposite and had held talks to try and get things changed because he didn't like some aspects of the EU. He had spoken about the EU in negative terms. Corbyn gets some stick for not campaigning hard enough (which with the benefit of hindsight looks all the more true) but he also carried the majority of Labour support behind the EU. Cameron didn't.

Leave however did tell outright lies. It did this to stir up feelings of hope from the problems they face. They sold an alternative explanation of why things were bad which tied in with the experience and world view. People tend not to question propaganda if it does tie in with their world view. Which is why they were not as critical of it as they should be. It doesn't matter what your educational level - its about what your world view is to begin with - everyone can be susceptible to propaganda. (You've got the reverse going on with Corbyn supporters at the moment btw - these are often much more educated people doing the same thing).

Propaganda is not necessarily a bad thing. It is a neutral thing that can be used for good or bad. Where the problem comes in, is what the intent behind it is. And whether what it says faces a point at which reality will hit.

Remain's Project Fear, is slowly but surely appear - not in such dramatic fashion as predicted but its there. Whilst the Leave campaigns lies have evaporated as the problems and practical and political implications of Brexit appear.

Do I wish the Referendum hadn't happened? Yes, but I also have a growing feeling that if it hadn't we would have had alternative political crisis around the corner that would have arisen. There were obviously some huge problems that were being ignored by all political parties and was off the radar of the media and out of the bubble of the experience of many.

The Referendum and now the result of the election have burst that.

My hope is that sanity will eventually prevail and there will be the proper debate about the EU that we needed from the beginning and there will be some addressing of some of the underlying problems behind driving forces that feed the vote.

I hope that some of the power of the right wing press over politicians will be broken and that they do more to now serve the people they represent - which includes the people who didn't vote for them.

I hope people will have a greater appreciation for the principles of democracy not just being about election day, but also about the need to have an informed debate, the need for a free and inquisitive press that includes a sense of duty to the public and I hope that it makes us appreciate our legal system and our rights better than previously. I hope it encourages more people to get involved and participate in politics and political debate and to simply vote. We have taken democracy and its values for granted and this threatens our liberal society.

Would this have been possible without the referendum?

I think its too easy to say I wish the referendum hadn't happened. What I really wish is that our politicians had served us all better full stop that goes way back before the referendum. I which that they had understood and appreciated their duty in a better way. That goes for all political parties btw not just Cameron and the Tories. There were failings elsewhere and there have been for a long time. Incompetence has not been a Conservative trait.

There are many good MPs. I just wish there were more of them.

As for leaving the EU. I still hope that we don't or that we end up with the closest, least worse option. But that's not the same as wishing we didn't have the referendum. I think perhaps we simply needed a political revolution and restoration in the true nature of democracy.

Only time will tell us which we end up with.

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