Anybody else wish the EU referendum had never happened? Or Remain had won?

[fakenamefornow]

I feel like the country is in a fucking mess already and we haven't even started to leave yet. So much uncertainty.

I voted Remain though, I know this must be colouring my view. Any Leave voters wishing it had never happened or even that Remain had won? Are you still happy with how it's going? I'm fed up with it all but am really trying to see the other side. Not looking forward to yet another election which I fear may be just around the corner.

RedToothBrush very well articulated and thought provoking. I think I had overlooked that this was probably all going to blow up into one type of crisis or another due to people's frustration with the EU and our own government. Although I voted to Remain I felt constant frustration with the 'one size fits all' regulation (often with unintended consequenses, take Zero hours contracts for one).

Anyone readinf

Unleashing demons - the inside story of brexit by craig oliver?

Its good so far

Very obvious ending

When I see European leaders laughing at or criticising Donald Trump, then I see our PM holding hands with him, not criticising him for attacking the Mayor of London on Twitter, not signing the letter about the Paris agreement, I feel despair at what we are leaving behind and what we are moving towards. That's even before you look at the total omnishambles playing out before our eyes.

I was and still am Remain. And I'm more horrified now than I was at the start. Leave the single market? Are you actually insane? Back then I didn't believe they'd go that far and now it looks inevitable.

[Benefits] Not being part of the EU, being able to make our own laws and policies, ending of freedom of movement.

We have had a year of a certain politician saying Brexit means Brexit, and A Red, White and Blue Brexit. The public have just said to her - Wait a minute, we want more than this. How will this affect health, education, policing, social care? You haven't told us that.

Your non-answer is in the same vein.

Although I voted to Remain I felt constant frustration with the 'one size fits all' regulation (often with unintended consequenses, take Zero hours contracts for one).

How are zero hours contracts anything to do with 'one size fits all' EU regulations? As far as I know, they are a British phenomena.

Zero hours contracts are completely within the scope of British law. Its completely up to us whether we have or not.

But apparently education policy depends on our EU status

RedToothBrush That's true but evidence is that the use of zero hours contracts has increased considerably following the introduction of the EU Agency Workers Directive in 2011.

"evidence is that the use of zero hours contracts has increased considerably following the introduction of the EU Agency Workers Directive in 2011."

This hasn't happened in other EU countries, so you can't attribute it to the EU.

peregrina - this from the Resolution Foundation .........

According to a number of employers and employer representatives we spoke to, the 2010 Agency Workers Regulations (SI 2010/93) which implemented the 2008 European Union Temporary and Agency Worker Directive (2008/104/EC) may also have contributed to the growth in zero-hours contracts. The regulations entitle agency workers to the same pay, terms and working conditions as their full-time equivalents after 12 weeks (3 months).

But that's up to us to compensate for any problems that it might cause. It wouldn't be difficult to do. Its too easy to blame the EU and not our own government for failing to react.

RedToothBrush again true but zero hours contracts have been on the rise since 2011 and no government has compensated have they ? I voted remain and I feel Britain is better off within the EU but I know regulations/legislation/law was an area of concern for many. I was giving an example of just one but it's one that has had entirely the opposite effect than that intended.

Although I voted to Remain I felt constant frustration with the 'one size fits all' regulation (often with unintended consequenses, take Zero hours contracts for one)

Zero hour contracts are banned in a few EU countries nothing (except the Tories) is stopping us doing the same.

No they haven't compensated. But why place the blame on the EU and not on our own politicians? The buck should be stopping with them.

I do feel like we almost excuse our politicians from their responsibility when we do this type of thing in pointing at the EU when the power is completely within our own control. Its excuses.

I get sick of the British public accepting things and excusing it. We 'can't afford' better mental health in maternity care because there is 'no money' yet this in itself has side effects which are much more expensive than if we have invested properly in the first place.

There is a real attitude where we don't challenge and question things like this when we really should. We let politicians off the hook far too much imo.

If someone wants to argue that B inevitably follows from A, because of the EU, then they need to show that it happens in all cases. This is the 'All swans are white' argument, which only needs one black swan to disprove it. Zero hours contracts don't happen in Germany, so it is not a consequence of the EU.

The same blaming the EU is made for fishing quotas and the collapse of the our commercial fishing industry. Except that it was our Government which chose to sell off our quotas almost in their entirety to a couple of Dutch firms. Not the decision of the EU.

We 'can't afford' better mental health in maternity care because there is 'no money' yet this in itself has side effects which are much more expensive than if we have invested properly in the first place.

Ditto with social care for the elderly. If we had not cut back on Community Nurses, and privatised carers jobs, (instead of being Local Authority workers on regular hours), we would be able to discharge the elderly and have fewer 'bed blocking' problems. Most elderly people would prefer to be cared for in their own homes.

It really is time we started to tell the Governments to start cutting out the cr*p. I am glad the 'demetia tax' went and bit the Tories on the bum, but I would be happy to see a proper debate as to how and what sort of care we can afford.

As ever, it's a political decision not to afford it. I don't doubt if Trump had said "let's bomb [wherever] May would have been getting out the UK's cheque book and saying 'How much shall I write in?"

If we did have another referendum, what raise do you think people like TM would take? Go back to Remain? Although TM was keen to steam ahead with a hard Brexit I don't think she ever once said we would be better off outside the EU.

If it was a referendum on the final deal I guess she would say we are better off taking the deal than staying in the EU. I can't imagine her coming out and saying that deal I've just negotiated is shit and we're better off in the EU, even if that's the case and she knows it.

I voted for Brexit and I still believe it is in the best interests of our country to not be shackled to Europe and deal with the rest of the world on our own terms.

However, if there was a re-run of the referendum tomorrow I wouldn't trouble myself to walk the 200 metres to vote. The British people have shown that they are massively divided and our politicians have proven that they are totally incompetent. The Tories in particular have shown me in the past 2 weeks that they don't give a shit about preventing more terrorist attacks and only care about keeping their hold on power. Teresa May has lost all my respect by keeping her enemies, people she has stabbed in the back, close (Michael Gove) so they are less likely to gang up on her.

IMO there is only one Brexit on the table now and that is Fucked-Brexit. I think the better option is now to absorb us into Europe. I think we would actually be better off under Angela Merkel.

Although TM was keen to steam ahead with a hard Brexit I don't think she ever once said we would be better off outside the EU.

No, it was "Brexit means Brexit, and I intend to make a success of it." i.e. put personal ambition first. So she would support the side that she thought would win, as before.

Yes, calmshamballa it has been troubling me that Leave voters wanted to concentrate power in the hands of our MPs, yet if asked in a different context would probably say they're a shower of eejits who couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery (i may be paraphrasing my DF there)

Macron just saying how door is open if they want to change their minds. Wonder if they would consider a new referendum? I doubt it but it's a thought.

I voted remain, and still hope to god that it gets cancelled! I hate it. It feels so small minded to me, and I don't actually feel that as a country that we have a huge amount to offer the rest of the world. Most things that we produce can be produced somewhere else cheaper, and I don't really want us to become a nation of call-centre workers. I also think that most of us are struggling under the Tory austerity pre-Brexit, so no idea how we will cope after. The thought of what is to come chills me to the bone.

I voted remain, and still hope to god that it gets cancelled!

Would you not have any problem with the results of two democratic votes being overturned (referendum and now the vast majority voting for Tories or Labour both with Brexit, including leaving the single market in their manifestos)?

Are you prepared to sacrifice living in a democracy to stay in the EU?

I think the better option is now to absorb us into Europe. I think we would actually be better off under Angela Merkel

I've never seen anyone state this wish quite so baldly before, but admire you for your honesty

Would you not have any problem with the results of two democratic votes being overturned (referendum and now the vast majority voting for Tories or Labour both with Brexit, including leaving the single market in their manifestos)?

The Leavers had no problem in wanting the results of the first Referendum overturned, so I fail to see why this one should be different.

As for your statement that the vast majority voting for parties stating that they wanted to leave the single market two points can be made:

1. many people were voting tactically to get the Tories out because they were afraid that the health service and education would be destroyed under them, and brexit was not their primary concern, and 2) May's Government had no problem whatever in ignoring Cameron's manifesto commitment to the single market. May was in Cameron's Government so it might be assumed that she signed up to the Manifesto.

Basically, it's a bit rich for you to complain about a lack of democracy, now that it's not gone the way you wanted.