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Brexit

Westministenders: Election Mayhem

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 18:50

Tick tock, tick tock goes the Brexit Clock.

Don’t panic, just don’t turn up to debates because you have talks starting on the 19th June and have to perfect the 100 page document relating to at least 750 international agreements that need renegotiating before then. Anyone who turns up for their job interview for that, is just wasting time.

If only someone hadn’t called a distracting election.

This election was dubbed to be about Brexit. Yet it is remarkable that we have barely had debate over it. No one wants to admit it really. We nearly got a consensus between Barry Gardiner, Nick Clegg and David Davis over it being a political not economic decision on Question Time on Thursday 1st June, but we are not quite there yet with the admission that the economy is toast. This means the addition money the Conservatives have promised for the NHS won’t be available but we can’t have this discussion. Its properly the fault of purdah. Instead the subject rapidly got skipped over. Instead Davis said that the target May had just set for immigration to be at tens of thousands by 2022 was unrealistic.

In post-election rumour has it that Davis is about to get a promotion to the FCO, whilst Johnson gets the boot. On the other hand Gove is also rumoured for NI and May loyal Gummer gets Brexit.

Meanwhile the 1922 Committee of Tory Backbenchers are said to be plotting the downfall of at least one of May’s guard dogs, Nick Timothy following the decision about the Dementia Tax and subsequent U-Turn. Farage also mentioned Timothy in his statement over the breaking news that the CPS are pressing charges on the Conservative Candidate for South Thanet (the former MP there), his agent and a Tory Party official over election expenses. It seems almost inconceivable that Timothy can survive a traditional Tory Knifing.

This is all as May’s leadership approval ratings are in freefall as the honeymoon is firmly ends, after the public finally got to see her create an army of strawmen as answers, in a barely concealed contempt for the public’s concerns. May’s reaction to a negative reaction? Go back into hiding from media accountability and get the Mail to do her dirty work.

Elsewhere the EU have lined up to criticise Trump over his hard ball attempt to renegotiate the Paris Climate Deal. May was noticeable by her absence as she’s trying the same trick over Brexit and is desperate to keep Trump onside. What is Trump offering us in return? Apart from a Brexit Opportunity to get stiffed.

As for the polls? Despite them, it’s difficult to see the Tories not making a net seat gain. For Labour to do well it relies on widespread tactical voting, young who haven’t previously voted turning out in levels not seen since the 1970s and this being spread across the country and not concentrated in University areas. This will be tough to achieve to simply stop a Tory Landslide, never mind a hung parliament. Labour winning a majority is the stuff of pure fantasy (needs Lab to be 12points ahead of Cons). That said, if the result isn’t much different to the 2015 result, it will beg major questions over May’s leadership and her ability to read the public mood. It will say something about her refusal to engage with ‘the saboteurs’.

Expect an increased Tory Majority but not of the epic scale of 470 they originally were aiming for.

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Charmageddon · 03/06/2017 13:17

I am as heartily sick of TM's tedious stock phrases as everyone else, my eyes roll back into my head like a shark every time - but JC gives me the RAGE!!

  • Repeated throat clearing when faced with a difficult question
  • brandishing that bloody manifesto at every opportunity
  • 'have you read it?'
  • 'it's a good read'
  • 'I'd urge you to read it'
  • isss-yews (repeatedly Angry)

Isss-yews is the thing that boils my blood the most though.
My kids have started saying it like that just to wind me up now 😤

Badders123 · 03/06/2017 13:23

I think the thing i find most offensive about Boris - and there are many - is they way he acts as if it's all a jolly joke and great fun
If you are Independantly wealthy then i suppose it is
But if you aren't - if you need the bus and a decent education for your kids then it's not quite so guffaw making
😡😡😡😡😡
And not voting labour because you don't like corbyn is like burning your house down because you don't like the curtains...

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 13:33

Mike Smithson @ msmithsonpb
The Tories have been edging downwards on Commons seat spread betting markets from 404 on May 7th to 363 this afternoon.

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RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 13:35

18-24 year olds voting intention:

LAB: 68%
CON: 16%
LDEM: 8%
GRN: 3%
UKIP: 1%

(via @ICMResearch)

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HesterThrale · 03/06/2017 13:35

Badders I agree.
It's all a game to BJ. Like he doesn't really CARE about anything. Always an eye to the main chance. I could be doing him down, but that's how it appears to me.

annandale · 03/06/2017 13:39

The article about Brendan Cox is interesting because he's clearly so virulently anti-Corbyn.

I yield to noone in my dislike of the Right Honourable Member Boris Johnson, but he made a perfectly good point in among the other stuff, and one which Lavery should have been flexible enough to respond to. Looks like there was stuff going on beforehand though.

Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 13:47

The Tories keep going on about this magic money tree, but the magic money tree has to exist for them to put the extra £8billion into the NHS they are promising. How can they do that when no deal is better than a bad deal? Unless they have no intention of doing it... Oh...

I kept hoping someone was going to ask her last night that you have just said a couple minutes ago you will put money into public services. That means you will get it from somewhere so please define that. May got off very lightly last night. Not one soul asked her about the weapons trade with Saudis while they sponsor terrorism world wide.

As for Corbyn staying or leaving after election, I think he has won it already. he proved he is better speaker, better listener and far better long term planner than May and has proven this on all platforms so far. That, along with the surge in polls, is more than enough to keep him there while Labour really thinks of what to do with the PLP who have been acting so naughty so far. A friend of mine told me some time ago how she asked her local MP in London to invite Corbyn to speak and the MP kinda burst. The outburst resulted in quite a few long term Labour members to question him, specially as the members were seriously wary of his voting history on things like foreign interventions and Iraq war.
He is still the MP but his reputation is hanging by a thread now apparently because he is now quite prone to such outbursts since the polls started going in favour of Corbyn. That will be interesting to see. I don't think Corbyn has any grounds to leave. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 13:49

And not voting labour because you don't like corbyn is like burning your house down because you don't like the curtains.

That's another ridiculousanalogy that keeps getting totted out.

I have my reasons for not voting for Corbyn's Labour at the moment.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 13:51

As for Corbyn staying or leaving after election, I think he has won it already.

The whole purpose of the party is to win.

As many MPs have said the only acceptable result is to win.

How can you 'win' if the party loses seats under your leadership.

It is a parliamentary party not a protest party.

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 03/06/2017 13:57

The loss of seats will mostly be due to the collapse of UKIP. Do you think Labour should become more like UKIP to get those votes back?

sodablackcurrant · 03/06/2017 14:08

I am watching from afar.

There is more information here than anywhere else I have looked. Keep up the good work.

howabout · 03/06/2017 14:09

Piglet no point winning if you have to pretend to be the other guy to do it.

JimmyGrimble · 03/06/2017 14:11

The magic money tree:

Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 14:12

The whole purpose of the party is to win.
The election was announced just a few weeks ago. Labour has come up so fast it is surprising. I completely fail to see on what grounds he should resign? In fact, he must be given due coverage in media (first time he is getting some, thanks to Mrs May I'll planned adventure) and he should be allowed to debate May one on one in a live debate. I don't think May will ever able to induce him into being shouty so i am not worried about it becoming a shouty match. Not that she is staying anyway.
So I do not think anyone can now deny that he should stay. I think I am beginning to see the point of the anti-PLP sentiment of Labour after listening to Corbyn/Lucas/Farron on one stage at the same time. Makes sense o get rid of shouty and sneery Jeery people like May/Rudd/Nuttal/BoJo and bring in Lucas/Corbyn/Farron. Far more appealing to the generation that has to run this country for a long time.
I think somebody really needs to tell May to sort her body language and hair style out. It works for the typical Fail reader but does the opposite with the people who have a million apps on their phone to check out any kind of audio/video history online for any politician within minutes.

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 14:14

Itv news @itvnews
Boris Johnson and Sir Michael Fallon at odds with PM Theresa May over Tories' income tax plans
www.itv.com/news/2017-06-03/theresa-may-questioned-on-tax-plans/
General Election 2017: Theresa May refuses to rule out increasing income tax if Conservatives regain power

For all the talk of Labour being divided it's the cons who seem more divided during the campaign whilst Labour have managed quite a bit of unity

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Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 14:15

no point winning if you have to pretend to be the other guy to do it.

^ this. Specially, if being yourself is winning you impressive poll surges already within such a short span. Imagine where Labour would be if

  1. Corbyn stays and gets this kind of media exposure and
  2. Is ready to get into coalition with LibDem and Green etc. (There was a very clear division between the leaders on the joint debate night: Rudd and Nuttal one side, the rest on the other). That is a natural alliance there.

By the way, anyone heard from May's office regarding her Mumsnet appearance?

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 14:23

The YouGov Model Update 3/6

Cons down to 308 seats. (yesterday 313, Thursday 317) – 42%
Labour at. 261 (yesterday 257 Thursday 257) – 38%
LDs at 10. (yesterday 9, Thurs 10) – 9%
SNP 47 (yesterday 48) – 4%
Plaid 2 (yesterday 2) – 1%
Green 1 (Yesterday 1) – 2%

This is bizarre. It has the CONs STILL going down!

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Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 14:25

I am beginning to ignore their polls constantly. There is something weird going on in them and we should probably ignore them till the real day now.

Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 14:27

Has anyone seen Hammond lately? Is he getting made over for a launch after May is thrown?

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 14:27

I completely fail to see on what grounds he should resign?

If you lose or lose seats you already had. Your party is therefore going backwards under your leadership.

BiglyBadgers · 03/06/2017 14:32

The whole purpose of the party is to win.

As I have already pointed out the idea that you have no influence over the direction of the country if you don't win is such self evident tosh I find it hard to believe anyone can say it with a straight face. Brexit would not have happened without UKIP and yet they barely had an MP. If a party that hardly even set foot in the house of commons can effectively change the direction of the country and trigger a massive shift to the right I fail to see how you think labour can't have an impact of they don't win. Hmm

citroenpresse · 03/06/2017 14:39

Telegraph's polls page is now stating 'Theresa May may not actually win many more seats'. That's a big change in tone. Charles Moore (who has long been saying that if May wants a landslide she should show she deserves it) also highly critical today. Sharpening their knives already?

BiglyBadgers · 03/06/2017 14:45

Corbyn has won the arguement in the labour party. At the start of this campaign the view in the PLP was that labour had to become more and more like the Tories. That nobody wanted policies that even smelled left leaning. The belief was that Corbyn would be crushed from the very start, people were seriously talking about the end of the labour party.

Corbyn has shown that leftist policies can appeal to the public. There is a genuine appetite from people for something other than austerity and given time and unity it is now clear that labour could capitalise on this. It may be that this election was too early and too quick for them to heal the damage done by the earlier disunity in the party, but there is plenty of time to the next election to pull together and build labour a distinct identity that can appeal to voters. In the mean time they can put a lot of pressure on the Tories to not just chase the UKIP vote and provide a real opposition to hard Brexit and increasing cuts to public services.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 14:53

I find it hard to believe anyone can say it with a straight face.

Quite easily thank you.

If Labour doesn't want to be in government then it shouldn't be a parliamentary party. It's the whole point.

Try telling those canversers and MPs pounding the streets and currently knocking doors it doesn't matter of you don't win. Of course it does!

woman12345 · 03/06/2017 14:54

Corbyn has shown that leftist policies can appeal to the public
and
This is bizarre. It has the CONs STILL going down

But remain would have won with the 18-24 vote?

It's soooo important to get the vote out.

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